Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In this episode, we discuss a couple of things that stood out in Morgan Housel's book, the Psychology of Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness.
Hello, welcome to the Call Like I See it podcast. I'm James Keese, and joining me today is a man who, when he shows up, people tend to say hip hop, hooray Tunde, Ogonlana Tunde. Are you ready to give the people some cheer today?
[00:00:40] Speaker B: No, but I'm ready to give them some OPP So I want that.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: All right, all right.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Show them your nature. This way.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Your nature.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: No, I shouldn't say that. I'm ready to give them. I'm ready to get some op. How about that?
[00:00:53] Speaker A: I wasn't gonna say that. I was gonna let it ride.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's me and my. That's my older brain having to work a bit harder.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: So.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: But now, before, don't let my wife hear that, though. Cause then I gotta tell her I don't want OPP So.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah. You have to click on that.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Maybe let's have a show before I get myself in trouble.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: But no, no, before we get started, if you enjoy the show, I ask that you subscribe and like the show on YouTube or your podcast app, doing so really helps the show out. Now recording on October 14, 2025. And today we want to discuss Morgan Housel's 2020 book, the Psychology of Money.
And we want to look at a couple sections. We're not going to do a book report here, but we want to look at a couple sections that were really notable to us and kind of dive into them a little bit and just kind of make sense of it, at least as far as what we took away from it. So I want to, you know, we can jump right in. Tunde, to get us started, I want to get your thoughts on. He had a chapter called Never Enough. And, you know, and that really went into the idea that for many people, ambition grows faster than success. And so they never get to a point where they feel like they are. There's a level of satisfaction, and it's always you're chasing. You know, your success goes one step, your ambition goes to two steps. And so you're always feel like you're falling behind, particularly when you're comparing yourself to others around you, so to speak. So what were, you know, what kind of stood out to you in that and how, you know, like, that is kind of a thief of happiness, a thief of fulfillment.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So I thought this was, first of all an excellent book in general that I know we're going to get into, like you said, not the whole thing, but some of the points that really stuck out to us. So.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Yes, and we may touch on other parts in future shows.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah, but this to me was a great part because it really played into the psychology around how we think about.
I would almost say how we think about ourselves as relates to money and how that affects then things like everything else, like how we look at ourselves, our self esteem, our anxieties, so on and so forth. And so I feel like reading that chapter, I couldn't help but think about that, like, for myself, like, all right, how do I approach these things about, like. Like this topic? When is enough? And I think there's. It's very interesting, James, because I would say this as a quote unquote, business guy, you know, I'm.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: And you're a wealth management person.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: That's what I mean. I'm a capital markets guy. I'm an entrepreneur, you know, all this stuff. So in our American culture, I'm wired to constantly think about growth, growing, growing. I got to grow all the time. Grow to my business, grow my money, grow this, grow that.
But there is a cost to that at some point, and those costs can vary. Could be a cost of spending time with my family, could be a cost of my own health and sleep. Who knows? So that's why to me, this chapter was very good. Because I feel like all of us as individuals can read it and probably take out something from it, like reflect on yourself and how you deal with these emotions about, like, whether you have enough or not and what you're really striving for and all that.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that I looked at this actually both on the micro level, looking at myself for, you know, my family and everything like that, and then also on the macro level. And what really stood out to me about this is that this kind of pushes back on a core kind of implicit ethos for American culture, you know, kind of like what you described. But, like, there's this implicit, I guess, in some places, explicit ethos of growth. Gross, gross, gross, growth. Well, that kind of embodies never enough. Because if growth, growth, growth, growth, growth literally means that there can never be enough, you know. And so. But how this affects you on a micro level, I thought that the book did a good job discussing. He gave examples of, you know, Madoff, even Bernie Madoff, for example, where he had a six, eight. Like, we know him as the con artist, but he lays out an anecdote about this guy, had A successful business, you know, as a market maker, like not con, like at a successful business, tens of million dollars a year, you know, and. But it wasn't enough. And so he didn't. You start putting, oh, we got to make more, got to do more. And so you end up breaking the law and ending up in jail when what you had already was something amazing, you know. And so on the micro level, I think it's something you can look at in terms of, yes, what are you willing to give up in order to have more? And is there ever a point where, whether it be time with your family, whether it be, you know, your freedom, is there ever a point where it's like, hey, you know what? I'm where I am now. I'm not willing to take away anything else from my life in order to get more. And I also looked at it on a macro level though, in terms of in society, people that are wired with the never enough really can take a lot away from society, because then, yeah, it becomes a thing. Well, you know, okay, well, 100 million isn't enough. That was another anecdote he gave in the book about a guy who had a hundred million that wasn't worth $100 million. And that's not enough. That guy's out there breaking laws and stuff, trying to get more.
And, you know, 100 million is not enough. A billion is not enough. 10 billion is not enough. You know, 100 billion is not enough. 500 billion is not enough. And then they got to keep going. And if society tries to constrain that at all so that everybody can eat, then they then turn their wrath and their money on society to knock that out, you know, which really is, can be destabilizing for society. So I saw this, like I said, how it plays out and affects our lives on both micro and macro.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Well, think about the type of personality that can have hundreds of millions, if not billions, and still is has to go get more. It's not about, maybe they'd go get more if they feel like it or something, but they're wired that they just. All it is is about the growth of their wealth. And I think, look, as you were talking, and I hate to put these names out, but you know, the, the, the former first man before they broke up, Mr. Elon Musk, basically. Is it a good example of what you just said? He, he became fabulously wealthy over time. He didn't like that the society began to have some, some constraints over his business. You know, the regulations and the investigations that the Feds were doing and probably the taxes he was paying. And so he used a lot of his wealth to put his thumb on the scale in an election publicly.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: I mean, just announced, I'm giving 300 million, he's given Lottos and all that. And then he got into the government and he made a lot of those problems for himself go away and he left. And so what I'm saying, you're right.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Like.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Like that is the type of personality that would seek to do that. And that type of personality may not be the best for society as a whole. They may do very well for themselves and their family.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: And that rules in society to try to constrain that type. That my type of mentality seems like it could be very corrosive if you let it just run free all around.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: I would say this. I get into a whole different conversation. We have had rules on that, but they just were gutted over the.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: We had those rules, though, because previously in society we saw it go.
Previous generations.
Yeah, they saw it go terribly. They were like, hey, we got to put rules to constrain these type of dudes. And then, you know, systematically, you know, those kind of rules were removed and have been removed, not accidentally, you know. And so. Yeah, it's kind of one of those things, you know, like. But no, I. Go ahead.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: I'm sorry, but. That's right. I'll get back to kind of the stuff from the book on the mindset, though, because there was kind of like these sub chapters within the chapter. So I'll go to. A couple of that stuck out to me. One was the first one was that the title is the Hardest Financial Skill is Getting the Goalpost to Stop Moving.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah. That.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: That title on its own is just great because you're, you know, that got me thinking, Jim, Here's a true story I had with my buddy in college.
And, you know, I would have been 20, 21, something like that. And I told them, hey, man, you know, by the time I'm in my late 20s, if I'm making a hundred thousand a year, I'm going to buy a BMW and everything's going to be good.
That's what I kind of realized too, in preparing for the day, thinking about it, A lot of this also has to do with where you are in your life.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Because when I was 20, I was naive and I thought actually that's all it would take for me to have no problems ever. Yeah. And then, you know, I made multiple of those hundreds over the years. You know, my 30s and 40 and it's like, you know, you still got.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Children, you have family.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: You ride around the bins and go, be enough.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. I've had the bands, I've had this, I've had that. And it's like I could still tell you how many millions of times I've been unhappy having all that stuff. So it's, it's, you know, sometimes I think you got to go through some of this stuff too, to learn who you are. Because maybe I could have been a different guy that went down those rabbit holes and had to keep buying nice cars and all that because I attached my own personal value to that. I'm glad I'm not that kind of person. But that also means that I'm not as flashy or maybe have the type of growth in my wealth like I might have otherwise have. So I think part of this stuff is learning who you are as you go through the journey and being comfortable with it.
And then the other one I had, and then I hand it back because I like this one is that number three, which is enough is not too little.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: And I think that's, that's the.
Because it says here, enough is realizing that the opposite, an insatiable appetite for more will push you to the point of regret.
I've thought about that a lot of times, honestly, James, with my marriage, because when I was younger, like late 20s into my early 30s, I was a lot like hungrier and ready to go work. You know, I could be in the office till 10, 11 o' clock at night.
And I remember one of my ex kind of business partner types, you know, he was going through a divorce.
And, you know, unfortunately, you know, him and his wife were having a bad time and he one day was in the office and told me that his wife was bitching at him because he was on at the time was his BlackBerry and it was like 10 o' clock at night. And he had the whole kind of alpha male attitude of man, f her, she doesn't understand I'm working for her and the kids. Da da, da. And then he was telling me that his, his wife at the time was saying how she didn't marry his business. She was telling him, I didn't marry your business, I married you. Da da da. That he was taking the other direction of that and said, nah, f that, I'm doing this for you. And that would get them fighting. And I remember, like, literally, James, like three weeks later, I freaking come in from like being out at 9, 30, 10 o' clock at night on some business call in the back, you know, back patio or whatever.
And my wife looks at me and says, you know, I didn't marry your business, I married you. And that hit me like right in between my eyes. And I remember being a younger guy, just saying, because this guy was like 10 years older than me, so I looked up to him and I remember saying to myself, you need to be careful if you want to end up like him. You keep working like this, and if not, you better listen to your wife and believe that she did marry you and didn't marry money. And so that was something that I realized, that I'm gonna have regrets if I don't put a guardrail on how I'm chasing this dollar. Right? And that's just a small example.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Well, no, I mean, and I think where this really hit home for me was that he actually did a distinguishing point of, you know, like when you don't have anything and you know, when you're in poverty and you seek more, that's completely different than when you are well off and it's never enough, so to speak. And that those are separate impulses and the calculus is totally different. Like, hey, if I don't do blank, then I can't eat. Is totally different than if I don't do blank, then I won't have another zero in my bank account that I'm just investing with anyway. And I'm not, that's not. Has nothing to do with my day to day life and so to speak. And so, but again, that's kind of the culture that we kind of internalize in many respects. And if you don't, again, if you want to do that, then yeah, I mean, do your thing. But if we, if you don't recognize that that culture is kind of being put in you and say, hey, if I don't want to do that, I can opt out of that, then that's how you can end up in these situations and not even really realize. And I think that's the point of the book, is to say, hey, if that's not, if you don't have that insatiable desire just burning within you anyway, then maybe recognize, maybe try to take a step back and see, hey, what's driving you to do the things you're doing? Hey, what, what do what? What is enough for you to be happy? You know, and then what other things would contribute to your happy or happiness or take away from your happiness? So it's being able to take a more Holistic look as opposed to kind of a myopic look that culturally we may be have embedded in us without us really knowing. And the other thing that just, you know, I want to move on, but I do want to mention that, you know, and you mentioned, you. You mentioned eating. And I just, I wanted to throw it because one of the other points he made was just that you don't know, you know, how much you can eat until you overeat, you know, so it's like, okay, you know, that kind of built in. You learn that you overeat once and it's like, okay, yeah, I know. And then you may do it again. But some people chronically do it. But some people is like, oh, okay, I know. That's what it feels like. I don't like overeating. So you can learn at that point and adjust your behavior based on that. And so again, it's really. It's not saying nobody should eat or nobody should, you know, indulge themselves from time to time. It's just kind of know what you're getting into. And if that's a road you want to go down, then know that you're consciously do it as opposed to doing it, because that's just what you think is the only way to be.
You know, I know there was another part of the book that, that you actually quoted on the show already, you know, and that was the discussion on the seduction of pessimism. And so I want to move to that, you know, and kind of get, you know, maybe your top line thoughts. So what was your. What would. What was your, you know, kind of biggest takeaway on that or what really stood out to you? And in that section on the seduction of pessimism. And again, this is the Psychology of Money. So all of this stuff plays on how our minds perceive and act on things in relation to our finances and, you know, personally, actually more than anything in this book, you know, just our personal finances and, and our ability to navigate the financial world.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah, no, this is good. And so I put up for the YouTube watchers that I have the book in front of me. So actually, James, I wanted to answer this question with actually reading the subheading.
Yeah, beat the chapter.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I got the.
I got the sub heading up, too.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, so let me just read it.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: I can go down to the next. My next note then, for when I come in.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Yep. So I'll quote Morgan Housel. Not us. Right.
Optimism. Sorry? Optimism sounds like a sales pitch. Pessimism sounds like someone trying to help You.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: I will.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: I thought that's profound.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: Because again, what I do for a living, dealing with kind of clients, meaning people, everyday people, and then the stock market and the investment markets, bonds and all that.
It's true. Like, and it makes such good points in this article. Like, no one, like, if I were to tell you the market's gonna go up, you know, 100% between now and 2027, you know, you might look at me skeptically and say, oh, Tony, sure. You know, da, da, da. If I tell you the market is going to go down 50% in the next six months and I've got a good story as to why, I'm gonna capture your attention like nobody's business. Right?
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: That's, to me, was, yeah.
Profound. I was like, yeah, I never thought of that. But if you're just pessimistic, sound pretty smart.
Yeah.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Well, no, I mean, the thing to me, what stood out about this is one, there's the evolutionary mechanism on this, that avoiding danger is a survival instinct even more than maximizing, you know, benefit. You know, Max, if you don't maximize benefit, then you can still survive. But if you don't avoid danger, then you might not survive. So you get it from that standpoint. But yeah, the, what really stood out to me about this is how, and it's true, how we do perceive the pessimist as wise and like, like, it, it did that to me. Like when you hear it and you're like, oh, I don't know, you know, you gotta be careful with this, you gotta be careful with that and so forth. That person does like, and this is just that it actually sounds wise and smart relative to somebody telling you, oh, no, no, over time things will work out well. You know, you just kind of play it cool and things will work out well. That person sounds, you know, like oblivious. That person sound like so that, that you receive kind of the intelligence of. And you see this online all the time. You know, like people that are out here predicting doom and gloom are like the serious people and people that are saying, hey man, relax, you know, like, we'll be able to make it through this, yada, yada. It's like all those people, they're oblivious. They don't, they don't understand. They're flaky, they don't understand the threats and everything like that. And so how we receive information and that it will the same person giving you, whether it be optimistic. And again, optimistic. He's not saying optimistic is that everything will work out all the time. It's just more so that over time, the trajectory of things tends to be relatively positive over time. I mean, and that's not without saying there'll be ups and downs, but that the. The. That we receive the optimist. Optimist person as naive or anything like that. And we receive naturally. And then you have to actually, in your mind, try to correct for this. That part to me was very impactful, is to understand that you gotta. This is one of those mental tricks. And, you know, he talks about Daniel Kahneman a lot in the book, which, you know, thinking fast and slow. He's, you know, he's a, you know, a psychologist that's done a lot of great work with, you know, biases and our, you know, and so forth in our minds. So it wasn't lost on me that he connects that guy and things, the conversations he had with him, you know, with a lot of this. But, yeah, it. Those psychological triggers and how we receive these things was. Is just fascinating to me.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And he uses an interesting term. He says that pessimism is intellectually captivating, which I found. I never heard of. Like. Yeah, it's actually is because someone's making a case and you being, you know, and it's.
Yeah, it causes.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: But it has nothing to do with how persuasive the case is. It's just the fact that it's a negative message.
Sounds more serious to us, which is just that. That's crazy. Like, that's one of those things that. I don't know, that you can explain it as much as you can observe it, and then once you observe it, you can try to account for it.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Well, I think to your point, I mean, the fact that it's been observed as an evolutionary trait. Because think of the term survival, like you said, in order to survive, pessimism beats out the desire to have a little bit more of something.
Right. And so that's just. If we're wired like that. We're wired like that.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And so you have to. That. That'll be your natural inclination. And then you have to consciously override that. You know, if you want to then benefit from the knowledge, from the wisdom that this is a natural tick, basically, in your brain, and in certain circumstances it might not serve to your advantage. You know, if we're talking about whether you should jump off a cliff, it probably does work to your advantage, you know, or whether you should run into that bush where you just saw a lion disappear into. Yeah, maybe that. Maybe that scenario, you know, it'll serve you well, but in financial scenarios all the time, it may or may not. So, lastly, the other point I want. Or the other thought I wanted to get to with you was, you know, the section on how certain circumstance in certain circumstances will lead people to believe anything. You know, like that the circumstance that you receive some information, depending on where you're coming from and so forth, can dictate a lot. What's believable to you and what's not. You know, would you really take away from that?
[00:20:25] Speaker B: I thought it was very interesting these two chapters were back to back, because I think they both complement each other, because one being about pessimism, and now this one is kind of. I wouldn't say it's optimism, but it's this idea that we can be led into directions based on either false hopes, false positivity, things like that. Again, the book being about money, I thought was very. It's a great chapter because think about how many people fall for financial scams. And. And like you said, you brought up Bernie Madoff earlier, and I think that's a great example, because pretty much all of his victims that I've known of. Right. Were not. He didn't go on the corner robbing little old ladies that were unsophisticated. Yeah, he was. He was defrauding big nonprofits that had big investment committees and boards.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Investors. Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Sophisticated. Hundred millionaires and billionaires who are supposed to kind of quote, unquote, know better. But what happened is they bought into a story, a narrative that was positive. This guy's the polished guy on Wall street that always averages 13%.
He's never up or down below that, and blah, blah, blah. And they. They wanted to believe it. Right?
[00:21:38] Speaker A: That's the point.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Because the two points he raises. Cause I would say you said the book's about money. I would say the book's about psychology, the framework of money. Because the book. So the two psychological pieces that he gives on this, I'm gonna look, read them both. So I'm quoting. One is the more you want something to be true, the more likely you are to believe a story that overestimates the odds of it being true. So that's confirmation bias. Plus, you know, like, that's. That's more, you know, like. But then also the second piece on this one and is that everyone has an incomplete view on the world. But with that incomplete view, we form a complete narrative to fill in the gaps. And so while we all know we don't know everything, when we observe a situation, we explain what happens and fill in the gaps of that narrative. And so I think the way he described history and how we understand history and the downside we think we understand history, the downside of explaining history after the fact is that in a way that is narratively coherent is that you then think that the world makes sense and that things are all around you are coherent. And so when you look at a scenario, whatever you don't know, you lessen in importance. And whatever you do know, you increase in importance and you fill in the gaps and have a narrative that's complete. So those two factors both lead us into this direction where the way we're processing information is, can make us believe almost anything.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, and what's interesting, because as you're talking, I'm thinking about things like crypto, right? And yeah, maybe not now because crypto obviously has been accepted, especially Bitcoin and Ethereum, they're accepted as real things now. But I would say 10 years ago, when people started really getting into there and it was became a chatter that was recognizable and wherever you go, people could talk about it.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: You're right.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: No one really knew what to expect. So the people I knew that were so optimistic and were so sure that they were right, that this was all going to be how the world works and all that, they were filling the gaps because clearly we didn't know. And the people that were totally pessimistic and thought it would never turn into anything were filling gaps. And that, that actually this part of the book got me thinking that, that this chapter is like everything being a human being.
Because even as you're talking, I'm thinking of other complex situations where it's almost impossible for one person to know everything.
They become inflection points in our discussions as humans. So I'll give you an example. The big hot one today is a region like Israel.
There's a lot going on. The people who support Israel, there's gaps in their knowledge of certain things and they fill in that to have a narrative that fits how they feel. And the people that don't support Israel and support the Palestinians, same thing. There's a lot of gaps in their information and they fill it up with things. And we see these two camps developed over the last couple of years, and it's hard for them to then reconcile these differences. And I think that money, I mean, think about that. For example, James, if you're married, bringing it back to this money thing, and you and your spouse have two absolutely like that, different ways of seeing money or dealing with the other emotional parts, like the stuff we've talked about, when is enough, for example. And then if you have gaps in your knowledge about either how to deal with it or how to deal with yourself, you're going to feel those over. And then you may have two narratives that are irreconcilable at some point. And that's probably why money is one of the issues that leads people to divorces or negative outcomes in relationships, because it is a very deep value system. Like many other things that people.
Yeah, be this confirmation bias, they behave this way.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: Well, the one that first one really hit me because you see it, it's easier, I think, to observe in things, in politics or, you know, in sports. You know, you can see that if the more you want something to be true, the more you'll believe stories that overestimate it, you know, like, oh, you know, a team just drafted a basketball, you know, your home team just drafted a star, you know, first player in the draft. Like, you're invested in that player being good. So any story you're consuming all this stuff that says that person is going to be good and change the trajectory of the franchise whether it happens or not, you know, like, like that type of, like that we process, like that is, you know, something that, is something that you can see and that you can observe. But to put that in the context of money, even the crypto example you gave, that the crypto narrative is still relatively young. Like we don't know how that's going to play out over 20 years or 50 years or whatever from that, you know, so. But right now, you know, yes, it looks like crypto at minimum is an asset class that has some level of it's not gonna disappear tomorrow type of thing. So if that's the case, then it's something that can appreciate in value and become something that people leverage and use in their portfolio. You know, and I'm, I'm not a financial planner, so I'm saying that just, you know, as a layperson. But it is interesting how the more the people who are the, like the crypto, the biggest crypto enthusiasts are also oftentimes the highest on its potential. And it's because what the stuff that appeals to them inherently based on the psych, the psychology of these things are stories that explain why it's going to be why it's going to work out. And then conversely, people who maybe have been and maybe still be in the more skeptical side are going to gravitate to stories that explain why, oh, it's A bubble. And, you know, like, until somebody comes up with a useful thing for it other than just a currency, like, it has to. It has to be useful for something else other than, you know, currency and criminality.
And then until then, it's not going to really be something that you can put aside other asset classes. And so all of those things, it shows how. But especially combined with that other factor, you know, it shows how people can look at similar situations and end up with completely different mindsets on what it is. And it may depend just on what they want to be true. And again, we can see this play out a lot of times when, you know, oh, there was this thing, this. This factual event happened, and people come to radically different conclusions on what happened. And this, oftentimes you're telling on yourself. The conclusion you come to is the conclusion that you.
Part of you wants to come to that this is what you would want to see happen in this case, you know, so you got to be careful. But again, for this book, it's about playing how this stuff plays out from money and how your financial decisions can be impacted by the psychological phenomenon that the more you want something to be true, the more you're going to overestimate and gravitate to things that suggest that it's true, and also filling in the gaps on your admittedly incomplete view of the world to suggest that where you want to be is the right place to be. So, anything else left before we close up, Man?
No.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: I'll let this gap go unfilled.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: We'll leave the gaps in the narrative and. And folks, I mean, they can read the book and fill it in, you know, with the actual content.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Fill it in yourself.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: All right. Well, no. Well, we appreciate everybody for joining us on this episode of Call. Like I see it. Subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, tell us what you think, send it to a friend. Till next time, I'm James Keys.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: I'm tuned.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: We'll talk soon.
