Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In this episode, we take a look at creatine and its growing use not just by athletes, but by people generally. Particularly in light of a recent claim by Darren Peterson, a college basketball star and top NBA prospect who suggested that taking creatine caused him major physical issues this past basketball season.
Hello, welcome to the Call Like I See it podcast. I'm James Keats, and joining me today is a man whose takes are really for the whole world. Tunde. Ogunlana Tunde. Are you ready to show them why you're always moving? Cool.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah, man. I'll see if I can make the world go round.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: All right, here we go. Let's see if you can do it.
All right, but before we get started, if you enjoy the show, I ask that you subscribe and like the show on YouTube or your podcast, appreciate doing so really helps the show out. Now recording on May 12, 2026 in Tunde. Over the past few years we've seen many discussions touting the benefits of creatine, which is a dietary supplement that's generally available. You don't need a prescription or anything. You can go to the store and get it. And these claims, recent claims have touted how it's beneficial for strength, but also for the brain and other systems in the body. That creatine supplementation can be something not just for bodybuilders or athletes as it has been for decades, but for anyone you know. And so looking at that, creatine usage has increased. But over past couple of days ago, or a couple of days ago, we saw this story about Darren Peterson and you know, he did an interview with ESPN and this is a college basketball star this past year, it was his first year, he was a freshman in college, he's going to the NBA.
Generally with the NBA, you have to wait one year before you can after high school, before you can go to to the NBA. And so he's one year in college and this guy's a top level basketball prospect. But he had issues this year with muscle cramping and it was really unexplained during the season.
And he is claiming recently that when he started taking creatine for the first time, which he did in this first year in college, the result of that was he had painful muscle cramps that would appear and show up even to the extent of a full body cramp he had at the beginning of the season and that this hurt his basketball performance this year. So looking at just first at the claims of Peterson, before we get to the discussion on creatine in general, what stood out to you, Tunde, about the idea that Peterson saying taking creatine was causing these really crazy muscle cramps and that was hindering his performance.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: It's interesting. I think, that I'm not surprised understanding that with any supplement, if it is used, either overused or used in a way that the body is not prepared for, it can cause these outcomes. As someone who played college basketball myself in the late 90s, back then, creatine was also popular. I remember that I had some teammates and myself, we took it. And I remember our trainer telling us that if we're going to take it, we need to be very careful because it can not only help to cause dehydration, but also it could ruin our kidneys. Too much creatine without the flushing that hydration can provide for the kidneys. And one thing that stood out for me from the article about the young man is that it was noted that once he went to the hospital with the initial body cramp that really debilitated him.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Full body cramp. Yeah.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: They discovered after, I guess, running tests on him, that he already had had elevated levels of creatine and things in his body already.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Well, no, that's what they discovered more recently. That's what the basis of this claim is, is that when he went to the hospital, initially they didn't know, but when he cut off creatine and then two weeks later got tested at the hospital this past month or two or after the season is when they learned that he had a high baseline level of creatine.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Okay. No, that's. I appreciate that. Making sure it's.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I just want to make sure that it's clear.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: But the point is, remains the. That the idea that it's a hard way to learn that he didn't need a supplement.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: And that was in that specific supplement. Yeah. And the idea of a supplement is to supplement something that maybe you're deficient in. So I think the whole point, I guess, and I had it back, is just we probably need to do a better job as consumers first learning about our individual body. What do we each have going on? Which does take knowing a doctor and going through the system a bit and all that, getting tests to then find out what are you deficient in. So then maybe you know what supplements actually you may need, versus having your friends tell you, which is common in college or today, which we didn't have in the late 90s when I was in school, maybe I would have been told by Instagram or TikTok about what to Put on my body. And again, is that the smartest way to approach it?
[00:05:09] Speaker A: I mean, I would think that one, I think you landed on, the key piece there is that if it's a dietary supplement and you determine that you're not deficient, that you have a high baseline level of something, then if you supplement with that, you seem to be setting yourself up for failure. Now, this wasn't directly said, but the insinuation to me in that, oh, I'd never taken this before I got to college. And, you know, this is part of. This is part of when he went to college. He had friends before he went to college. And this is somebody whose body is setting himself up to try to make tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars over the year. I don't think this is something he gets off of Instagram. This sounded to me like. It's like, okay, here at Kansas, our weight program, this is what we want you to do. This is the regiment. Now, this, I don't know, but it sounds like, okay, here's the regiment that we have our athletes on. We want you on this regiment. And so he starts doing this regiment, possibly by trainers and stuff. But like, you pointed out that there's no testing there to say, are you deficient? It's like there's this assumption which is made generally when you hear about creatine. Everybody's deficient in this. Everybody is probably deficient in this. So everybody can stand to supplement it, because this is something that your body makes on its own, and it just makes a certain amount. And they say, okay, your body makes about one gram a day, but optimally, you have five grams a day. And it's like, well, what if his body's making 4 or 5 grams a day on its own? Then supplementing it could actually be an overdose because his body's already doing it. So to me, that's what really stood out about this, is that even if you feel like you're under the care of a, you know, of a trainer or something like that, that you have to be careful, because all of these things are meant to supplement where you are right now. But if you don't know where you are right now, then you might be setting yourself up for failure. And you. And the only way to know, and I say this from, like, personal experience, you have to listen to your body and. Or you get tested beforehand. If you don't get tested beforehand, then you listen to your body. I'm a person that cannot take creatine. First time I took it was in college.
And it created discomfort for me, you know, and it was like a couple of weeks, I'm like, oh, man, I don't feel right. I work out a lot. I don't feel right, you know, taking this, so I'll stop. Then 10 years later, it's like, oh, well, maybe, you know, I was drinking too much or something in college. Let me try it again. And the same thing happened, and it was like, oh, man. So clearly, I just can't take creatine, because every time I take it, a couple weeks later, I start feeling a little off. My muscles start feeling a little funny. My insides, my organs start feeling a little funny. It's like, all right. So listening to my body, I had. I didn't have to get tested. I was just like, oh, when I supplement this, even within the guidelines, it doesn't. It doesn't work for me. So part of that, I mean, now, in this case, it's hard to. It could be hard for somebody like this to identify. Okay. It's the creatine that did this to me. But, you know, like, he started doing something right before the college year, and then he starts having these problems. You got to start eliminating things sooner, ideally, than the end of the season to try to figure that out.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
I think this is also, you know, in a greater look at it. It's also the downside of, I think, part of our culture a little bit of this. This need to kind of always find some edge, you know, be on the bleeding edge of the competitive landscape, because, you know, he just had to be better than the next guy, you know, from his body and all that. And this kind of, hey, man, that's
[00:08:19] Speaker A: the Mamba mentality, man. That's what we are.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: No, I get it. But that's what I mean, it's kind of a conditioning that we have that, you know, because what I was thinking, I was reading it, too, is a couple, like, real things and thinking back to my own life when I played college basketball, number one is, you know, you're 18, 19 years old, 20 years or whatever. You know, it's kind of college age. Number one, you're, you know, a rarer person. Because I remember I didn't know how to listen to my body at that age. Right. Like, meaning, yeah, I understood when I blew out my acl, it hurt and it was bad. Right? Like, I got that.
But the idea of these little kind of things internally and all that based on my memory, dude. And I'll be honest, right? I was partying on the weekends in college Drinking, smoking weed. I was in the dorms hanging out. So, you know, like the ability for me to be like the age I am now where I can, yeah, I can feel certain things and all that. And like, okay, shoot, I need to go to the doctor or let me look this up. That wasn't there when I was that age. The other thing is, I remember being an NCAA athlete, especially during the season and all that, because they got rules of when you can and can't work out. I mean, when you're working out, you're working out. We were doing weight six days a week. I am 6 foot 4. I, at 48, now weigh 195 pounds roughly. Back when I was 20, I was 218 pounds with 8% body fat. I mean, they had us like literally horses.
And then on top of that, as a basketball player, it's like one of the most athletic things you can do because you're constantly running. There's no switching teams from offense to defense like baseball and football.
And then the conditioning in preseason, I mean, you're on a suicide sprints. We were running five miles. Like you're constantly on the go. And so that's what I'm saying. It's understandable that if you are already conditioning a body like that and then you just throw in there something like creatine, that could throw that body off. And so what I'm saying, it goes back to. I guess what we're saying is maybe as a world class athlete at that age, right? Not as a 30 year old or 35 year old, or maybe someone like LeBron at 41 who's still a world class athlete, but at 18, 19, maybe you don't need all this extra stuff. And that's what I meant when I came in and said it's another like, oh, the creatine, you need this, you need that. And it's like, actually no, maybe this kid needs to be left alone and just lift weights and work out and play basketball.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: But isn't that playing the result? Because every other Kansas athlete takes it and is better for it. And so he's the.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: I don't know. This is a good lesson because here's an example.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: But that's what I'm saying though, like creatine. And we can, we can keep keep the conversation moving because I do want to talk creatine more generally. But the whole point is that creatine amongst supplements is one of the more studied and established to be safe supplements there are out there, period. And so you have these outlier cases where it's like, hey, you know, maybe you high level athletes shouldn't be taking ephedra, which, you know, like that was another thing that people did when I was in college. But it got outlawed. But maybe, maybe not. But something like creatine would seem to be the kind of thing it's like, hey, yeah, you can do protein powders, you can do creatines, let's do just the safe stuff. But this is one of these outlier instances which I can relate to because I experienced not to this extent that he did, but I did. I mean, lucky for me, when I was in college, I did listen to my body when that stuff was, when I was feeling off, taking it two weeks later or whatever, you know. But this, these are outlier incidents. And so the question really isn't should nobody do it? Because 01% of people are gonna have some problem. It's just if you're in that 0.01%, you better try to identify that as quickly as possible, you know, like, and however that can be.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: I'm just smiling cause I'm thinking you about to have me asking, well, should we think about vaccines the same way? But that's a whole different conversation.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Well, but that it is part of the same. It swims in the same.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: I know, that's why not to get on a tangent at all about that.
But now, because this is a good topic and that's why I want to ask you a question because you're much more dialed in on this topic in your life than me. That's why I appreciate that you wanted to do this topic because for the audience, I mean, as James mentioned, he's been experimenting with these in college. I tried creatine. I probably tried it for a month and that was it when I was in college. But lately, this year, in 2026, I've actually for the first time organically just started taking some supplements for my own, you know, just aging in my body.
So that's what, that's what I wanted to ask you. Like, because historically this has been something creatine, specifically for bodybuilders, weightlifters, athletes. Lately one of the reasons why I got interested in revisiting creatine was learning that it can help with brain function and memory and certain things like that. So. And as I'm getting older and it's interesting, I started taking a step.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: We're starting to feel the need to supplement those things.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, but that's the thing with my statin. It doesn't Allow the synth, you know, my body to synthesize as much CoQ10, which also affects memory. So I'm on a CoQ10 supplement. So when I heard that about creatine, to me, it was very interesting. So wanted to know, like, just your opinion on that in general. And then do you think that when we hear things like about this kid in Kansas, you know, these negative side effects, do you think that, you know, this stuff is really something we should pursue and all that? Or do you think it's a little bit more hype, looking at the fact that there are these side effects? Even if it is for the 0.01 or 0.1%.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: That's the tough population. No, that's the tough piece. When you live in a society with a lot of people and everybody's coming from a different place, so to speak. Like, all of our body, none of our bodies are identical. And so if something creatine is again established to be one of the more safe and effective supplements out there, you know, like, I tried it when I was 20 and it didn't work for me, but it's not like I didn't do anything. Like, I've done protein powders or different fish oils and all that types of stuff. Been doing that stuff for 25 years, you know, like, been trying different things, seeing how it makes me feel, and then if I like it, I'll, you know, keep it in or don't, and stuff like that. So I've experimented with this stuff a lot, these type of dietary supplements, trying to find, you know, the right kinds and things like that, learning about what it does, you know. So I think it has a place. But the problem is, is that with the hype, you're looking for the. You're trying to loop in the largest audience as possible and saying, hey, you know, this creatine. Creatine has been being used for a long time, you know, decades by. But it's been bodybuilders, it's been athletes and stuff like that. And people who are. Are, generally speaking, paying close attention to their body. They're trying to get maximum performance out. So now it's like, oh, no, no. Actually, even if you don't want maximum performance out of your body, creatine can be great for you, like you said, for brain function, for all these other things, which I'm sure is true. But when you. Again, the bigger loop that you put around and say, hey, we want more and more people to do this stuff, the more of that 0.1% or whatever which is a number I'm just throwing out there. But it's some small percentage of people that is within the sample size of them saying, hey, this stuff is safe and effective. They're like, yeah, it's safe and effective. There have been anecdotal reports of muscle cramping or kidney problems.
As if that means you're supposed to disregard that. And it's like, well, no, that doesn't mean you're supposed to disregard that. That means if you're going to try this, you're at your own risk. One, and you better pay attention to whether or not you start having any of these side effects, because if you take it and you start having these side effects, you're one of the unlucky ones that this affects. And so, and that is like you, you kind of threw in with a little jab. But just like that is the same kind of thing that we deal with from when you're looking at it not on an individual level, but on a societal level when we talk about vaccines, which vaccines would be qualified, though, not as a dietary supplement, but as forced medication if it's going to be mandated by the state, which brings in a
[00:15:49] Speaker B: whole nother level of conversation. Yeah.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: When they're for that 0.1% or whoever that are going to have some bad reaction and it's like, well, the state's making me do something that's going to happen, give me some bad reaction versus if you do it voluntarily, you kind of just take your risk. So I think, I don't think it undermines the hype, but hopefully it will increase awareness that, hey, yes, for the vast majority of this thing of people, this thing can be safe and effective. But for some of y', all, you better watch out because this thing might hurt you. And then you better stop as soon as you can so that your body can. Can get back to normal.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think one thing I've learned to appreciate as I've gotten older is again, not to have such a suspicious way of viewing the healthcare system. And even I joked about the vaccines and stuff like that. And obviously there's nuances that you've well pointed out about whether a state mandates it or not versus your own voluntary putting something in your body. So I know all that's very important. But I also feel like we have a system, we have a country of 330 or so I keep hearing is the estimate of our population.
So sometimes we do have to accept that there's. It's like me taking my statin or certain things. And if it has a side effect, you know, I try and tell myself, well, don't blame the entire system and all that. Just understand that, you know, you might. Like you're saying I might be part of the 5% that has a memory issue with the. Or I think 20% with. With a statin. And so. And then I look up why, and I find out, okay, so now I got to go take more CoQ10. And it's a choice, because I can choose to stop taking the statin as well. And I can probably get the results of the statin by changing my habits and my diet and all that. I just choose not to because I hate to say it, but I'm a little bit lazy. I don't want to get that disciplined with my nutrition. So.
But it's like, Dave, my point is, is. And I appreciate you laughing, but I'm kind of fired up and serious about it because I feel like part of our issue right now in our society is debating all these things, and we all are kind of so narcissistic, if I can say it that way. And I rather just be humble and to be honest and say, yeah, I probably could avoid taking a pharmaceutical drug, but I don't feel like putting that discipline in my life right now because I got other things in my life that need to be more disciplined as well. And I need a bit of an outlet. And right now, for me, eating a certain way makes me feel good, so I can wrestle with that kind of stuff.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: But.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: But for some people, they'll say, whether it's the vaccine or the supplement or anything else in healthcare. So I don't want to pick on it. They'll look at, well, because it affects 0.5% of the population. Now there's this whole conspiracy theory created, and it's like, actually, no, don't look at all that stuff. Why don't you focus on learning your own health care and how some of this stuff relates to you?
And one of the things I just wanted to be. I know we're going to kind of close it out here soon, but also,
[00:18:31] Speaker A: I would respond to that, though.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: So go.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: But go ahead.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Oh, go ahead, man.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Well, I think, yeah, I got one more. And then I know we're going to close out, but go ahead.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: Well, the thing is, is I think that I laugh because it's an honest assessment. And that's what I think is missing more than anything is that you have a role in this. You're not just being acted on. You Know, again, that's one thing that people like to do is to avoid responsibility for their own life is to say, I'm being acted on. This is what's happening to me. And not focusing on the part of it that they can control and say, hey, okay, this is the part that I'm going to make a decision here, you know, and it's not going to be an easy decision. There's going to be a trade off either way. And so you just outwardly and openly acknowledge the trade off that you're willing to take. And I find that's, that's respectable. It's funny to hear it because it's like, okay, yeah, hey, I'm not going to make this sacrifice, so I'll take this risk and then I'll try to mitigate that risk. That's an adult way to view it, you know, and so, and other people might look at the same circumstance and say, you know what, I don't want to take that risk. I'm going to try to do this other thing that might be, will require more effort than what you say. You're saying, I don't want to do that extra effort. But it also might require more discipline. You might say, hey, I don't know that I want to even set myself up to not have the discipline and then fail. So there are a lot of every. Everything doesn't have to be for everybody, you know. And so in this instance, when, whether we're talking about creatine, whether we're talking about like medicine and things like that, what you have to do is look at these situations as an adult and decide, okay, well, I want this approach.
There's nothing's 100% okay. This approach has a 5% chance of something going wrong in this way. I can try to mitigate that a little bit here, which is what you did. Somebody else might go the other way. So I think that a lot of times though, the aversion is that people say, oh, well, this is just happening to me. And so I'm not going to say, okay, well, I'm going to actually take this in my hand. And so that I think it's funny, it sounds funny when you say, when you start talking about that, but it's not. I commend you actually for that, you know, but there's one piece I want us to get to before we get out though, and that's the how readily available supplements are in general. There's, there's debates, you know, that go on as far as, you know, you had that supplement act from the early 90s, early to mid-90s, that made supplements generally available. You don't have to get a prescription for things like that. You know, like, you can. Most supplements can be sold freely, you know, same way as you can sell a, you know, a box of macaroni and cheese or something. You can go buy some creatine or whatever. Do you think that because some supplements, a lot of supplements, I mean, if they're doing what they're supposed to do, they all have effects on the body. Do you think that this is a regulation issue? Like, is there something from a societal standpoint or a state standpoint that should be in a barrier in the way to prevent something like what happened to Peterson or generally. Or is our current setup sufficient to deal with these types of risks and to let people make these decisions? Or do you think that the state should have a bigger role in this?
[00:21:26] Speaker B: I'll answer your question after I get through the astonishing amazement that there may actually be a potential for a macaroni and cheese supplement.
I want to revisit that with you in a later second.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: No, no, I'm saying you can buy. I can go to the store and buy some creatine and some macaroni and cheese.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Because we're having a discussion about this and you said Mac and cheese. Now I'm just thinking about now you're hungry. Put that in a.
Yeah, like, can they put it in a pill or can they crush it into a powder? Or I can either put in my drink and snort it or whatever. I want to go get my Mac and cheese, the quick and fast one, you know, so let's see this. You're a patent attorney, so we may have a whole conversation offline. I might be hiring you as a.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Might have to improve delivery method.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: When I become a billionaire and no longer join you on this show because I'm too busy and all that, then the audience will know that it worked out.
So. But then to get back to seriousness here, no. So I think that.
So this will be one where you'll be surprised. I'll actually say, I don't think we need additional regulation on this one.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Why would I be surprised about that?
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Because I'm always saying we need to regulate something.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: You feel like you're always saying that. I don't think you're always saying that, but go ahead.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: I think it's because of the topics we generally bring it up on, this financial stuff or poly markets and trading.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think it is selection bias.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: So.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: No. So this one? I don't think so. That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say I think it needs to be regulated like Ma and cheese on a serious way. Meaning I think the companies that produce supplements need to be regulated. Right. We need to make sure that they're doing it safely in safe factories and all that.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: I think that's in there is what they say is what's in there.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: That's what I was going to say.
We need to make sure we're not just buying sawdust or a placebo. Right. We want to make sure that the products that they get reprimanded if they're found to be not selling us what they're telling us they're selling us. So from that standpoint, I think like any consumer product, the regulatory environment is already there and needs to stay robust. But I don't think we need to do new healthcare regulations or that some of these things need to be prescribed and all that, because I do think this comes down to, and you kind of said it in your wind up of your question, that there's this kind of weird dynamic, that this is a true quasi the person and quasi the system. Right. To me, the system part of it, where the regulations are necessary. What we just said, to make sure that when I go to the store that whatever's on the shelf that I'm buying or I'm buying from Amazon is. Is in itself safe. That should always be part of regular consumer regulations.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Well, but after that is. Safe is a loaded word though, because safe, you know, some people can take something and it's. It's unsafe for them. Well, Peter, safe.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Let me be very clear to not be exactly.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: You should. You should.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: What I mean is that the machines that are used, you know, to make the pills go in the bottle aren't, you know, giving trace amounts of arsenic from the metal to the. That's what I mean by safe.
[00:24:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just. Is.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Is so. Is so it's this idea that we're. That's why it's meant like, similar to the macaroni and cheese. We just want to make sure that if we put in our body, you know, it's not going to kill us immediately and all that.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: So because of some contamination or some kind of.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah. So that's really my point. And so that's what I was going to say is just the alternative then, is this kind of, you know, that the human beings do have to be responsible themselves for asking questions. I do think that. That we've identified Here there's a difference between this guy at 18 year old who's a freshman in Kansas and me at 48 who's 30 years older than him that has had enough life experience. Now that I do ask questions before people try and give me stuff and put stuff in my body and I appreciate an 18 year old kid is just going to do whatever the trainers say. So that's also part of it. We have to acknowledge that we're all sharing this existence at the same time, but not all of us are in the same place. So some of us will fall through the cracks and won't ask questions and all that. And that's just part of the kind of a large society in the journey. And then the last thing I'll say, James and I know we want to wrap it up and.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah, let me, let me, I got something you said.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's just that you said something as you wound up this question, which is the abundance of them. And I'm reminded that in my research for just this discussion, you know, I started looking at stuff that was telling me the history of supplements. And it's interesting that we know that there's things like ginseng, green tea, ginger used by the Chinese, the Greeks, the ancient Egyptians. So supplement. When you say abundance, it reminded me that really supplements are just what's already out there in nature. Now today we take a pill, maybe for ginger, a ginseng to make it easier. But at the end of the day, this is what human beings have been foraging and gathering forever.
And so yeah, some are, but some
[00:26:05] Speaker A: are like creatine isn't something like that. That's not some root that's been ground up, you know, like that, like. So some, some supplements are like even protein.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: That's a supplement that human beings may not have needed before this modern world. And this ability of trying to be
[00:26:20] Speaker A: a hydrographer, that's a chemistry thing, that's not a biology thing, that's not something that somebody got out of nature. Like it's both.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: But I'm talking more conceptually, James, that the idea that people understood that there's plants and things in nature that could supplement their health, you know, other area, make them better or you know, cure this or that. You know, the idea of tea is just putting herbs in hot water, letting it boil and it's a supplement. Right, well, let me, let me jump
[00:26:45] Speaker A: in, Go ahead because I think that I agree with you on this and now I probably do lean a little bit away more away from regulation. And then you do Generally speaking, you know, I'm always looking at the incentives and so forth, but in this instance I think that the regulation is about where it should be. What we need to be able to do is to get enough information to people for people be able to evaluate risk. I don't think that the government should hold your hand on every decision that you make. You know, so once you're 18, even if you're an 18 year old, you know, there are plenty of responsible 18 year olds. You know, like just because there's something near responsible 18 year olds doesn't mean that an 18 year old shouldn't be able to make the decision and do it, do whether do it or not do it. And so I don't think this for reasons like this, like this is within the realm of what is, is creatine advertised about. It's advertised that hey, it's safe and effective based on the standards, which is Some, it's not 100%, it's 90, 90 something percent, 99% or whatever it is that most people will experience no problem and be able to get a benefit. But that does not mean that everybody will, or that everybody won't have a detriment and everybody will experience the benefit because we're all coming from different places. So as long as we can evaluate what those risks are, like what was very valuable for me, for example, even going back, you know, like I said when I was 20, was when I started taking it, to look at what I need to watch out for and say, okay, well if this works for me, this is what's going to happen. If it doesn't, I might start feeling this or I start feeling that. And once I was able to see okay, I started feeling this, then I know I hit eject. And again, like I said, I tried again 10 or 15 years after that because I was like, oh, maybe I lived a certain way then that would make it so that I couldn't do it. And I tried again, gave it a couple of weeks and I was like, no, this is the same thing that came back the last time. So it was like I need to be able to evaluate the risk. You know, that's a free society. I'm free to make a mistake, I'm free to do something that can harm me, you know, but I at least want to be able to evaluate if I'm doing something that's harm me, harming me. Like it shouldn't sneak up on me with respect to the available information. So that's, that's as far as I can go with it because, again, you can't regulate out any possibility of any negative outcomes. Not only because that's impossible, but also because that's not a free society at. Anymore. And I do value the idea of a free society. And the people who want to put regulation on this stuff, they just want to control it, you know, and then we go down a funny road when people start wanting to control stuff. The incentives start to change, as we see with pharmaceuticals and the way they're treated, you know, nowadays, you know, so. So, yeah, I think we're actually in a good place. We're in the kind of place that you should be with something like this. And, you know, I'm happy that we're here, so to speak, and whatever. Like, isolated incidents like this, though, are going to be a cost to doing business in that context.
So.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: But no, I think I'm happy. I'm. I'm happy to learn that the James from, like, 20 years ago and the James from today, when he tried two different things before, twice. Sorry. Yeah. The same thing at two different points in life and it had the same result, tells us that his body is the same. But I know my boy, before his wife and kids was a. Was, Was, was. Was definitely, you know, a much different person, I would even dare to say. Wow. But. But we know that supplements the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah. So the supplements, nothing's changed on that mark. But a lot of the other things have changed a lot over 20 years.
So.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: But no, that. I can't deny that. So. But we appreciate everybody for joining us on this episode of Call Like I see it. Subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, tell us what you think, Send it to a friend. Till next time, I'm James Keys.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: T.
All right, we'll talk soon.
