Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In this episode, we discuss the book Beyond Belief and consider the extent to which so much of our individual realities and experiences are really creations of our brain and the result of how it has been conditioned by our beliefs.
Hello, welcome to the Call Like I See it podcast.
I'm James Keats and joining me today is a man whose takes give you what you need whether you're ready or not. Tunde. Ogunlana Tunde. Are you ready to give the people the score today?
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Here I come. Yes, I am.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Sure. All right. Now before we get started, if you enjoy the show, I ask that you subscribe and like the show on YouTube or your podcast app, doing so really helps the show out. Now we're recording on April 28, 2026 and we continue our culture series today by doing some reading between the lines in the book Beyond Belief, the science Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results, which was just released in 2026. In this book, author Nir Eyal does a deep dive into the concept of beliefs and reveals how our beliefs really dictate really how we see the world and how we experience the world and how if we change our beliefs or as we change our beliefs, we can do so to better suit our goals and our circumstances.
So to get us started, Tunde, what did you think about the book and how it specifically defined beliefs, relatives to facts on one hand or faith on the other?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: I thought the book was excellent, honestly.
And that whole part of fact versus faith to me was very intriguing. I think that the idea of.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Well here, let me hold on one second, I'm going to read it actually from the book. So he defined it was an interesting contrast. So a fact is an objective truth verifiable through evidence. So something that is that's true whether you see it or not, whether you're there or not like that, that's something that's a thing that happens.
Faith is a conviction without the need for objective evidence. And then belief is a firmly held opinion open to revision based on new evidence. So that's how you define the three?
[00:02:19] Speaker B: No, that's excellent because I wrote down a quote that I'll from the book the author cited or said and he said beliefs are tool not necessarily truths. Yeah, yeah, I thought that was important because a lot of times we got this from some of this stuff with other books we've done the show discussions on with the idea that information is not truth and truth is subjective and so unlike facts, like you're saying facts and beliefs and all this stuff and faith so Whether I put here a note, whether a belief is true or not is less important than whether it serves me, is what he said. And I thought that's fascinating because, I mean, we'll go through examples both in our individual lives, I'm sure, and from the book. But that's kind of what I got out of it is actually. Yeah, from an evolutionary standpoint and a survival standpoint, what serves you most, actually, is what your brain is going to cling onto because it's about surviving. And so. And that's why the idea of truth or belief for each of us can be very different.
And I think that explains certain things you and I have talked about since reading the book, like how two people can look at the exact same thing and come to different conclusions. Because of the way I'll say this, some of this information that goes through their filtering system, like their eyes and their ears. Right.
Gets interpreted by the brain. And so to get interpreted by the
[00:03:52] Speaker A: brain based on the beliefs that they have at that moment, which kind of gets into the first part of the book.
And you're correct, though, like, he does actually lay the case that this, that the beliefs fill in the gaps around the facts that allow that give us kind of actionable information from an evolutionary standpoint, you know, and, you know, talking about how it gives you something fast to rely on and not always have to do sit there and calculate and think, okay, that bush is rustling over there. You know, what are the. What are the odds that that is a predator coming to get me versus some rabbit that I can eat? And, you know, you form beliefs to kind of fill that in.
What it reminded me of, actually, was Daniel Kahneman's book Thinking Fast and Slow, you know, where. Where that part talked about. Now, Kahneman had system one, which was the instinctive fast system, and, you know, system two, which was the logicals. And so beliefs kind of, you know, enable that fast system one piece. But, you know, I think that looking at a belief, you know, like. And I related a lot to the book because I'm conscious of a lot of my beliefs. And in the book actually tries to make you conscious of your beliefs so that ones that serve you, you can lean into and ones that actually may undermine you. Oh, I'm. I'm bad at taking tests or I'm, you know, things like that, you may be able to either re. Reevaluate or recast those in a way so they don't undermine you. Because the. The thinking being that if you walk around feeling like I'm bad at taking tests or I'm a bad driver or something like that. Then what? Owen, your. Your. Your brain will kind of make that happen because you'll have more anxiety because you go in, or you'll be more frantic and less observant as far as what's going on around you and so forth. So the idea of trying to take control, of identifying and recognizing where you actually are, operating on a belief, not fact, is something that you can use to your advantage. But, like, for me, I know one belief that I have is, you know, that I've had for a long time.
If I see someone lie to someone else, then I believe that person will lie to me under, you know, whatever circumstances. Like, I just. I fundamentally believe that. And it's something I could update, but I haven't had cause to. You know, it's been like, okay, yeah, that seems to be the case. Like, if a person does that, then that just tells me that's something that they'll do. You know, it's on the table, you know, and so forth. So that doesn't mean that they'll always lie to me, but I just always know that in a tight situation or if something goes a certain way, that what I get from that person may or may not be the truth. And that doesn't mean that somebody haven't seen lie, that I trust them 100%. But it's just once I see somebody lie to anyone, not just, you know, it doesn't have to necessarily be to me, then I'm like, okay, I put them in a category. And so I think that's a belief that has served me in the past. But if it was something that, you know, I needed to. If it. If it ultimately wasn't true a lot, then maybe I'd have to look at it and update it. But like I said, that hasn't been the case. So, you know, like, beyond that. Moving beyond that, though, just what did you make, Tunde? I wanted. There's a second part I really wanted to talk to you about.
The idea from the book that we experience life in large part through a simulation. Like, he actually said that we're all walking around with a personalized reality generated moment by moment in our heads, and that this is created in large part based on our beliefs. What stood out to you or what'd you make of that part?
[00:07:10] Speaker B: I thought it was fascinating. And I want to say this because I think the language is important here, the word simulation, because I'm somebody that in a prior time in my life, if I would have heard that, I would have thought it was a bit hokey, or that I would have thought someone's trying to compare humanity or organic life to a computer simulation.
And I would have then probably started rejecting that in my head because to the point of this book, that would have gone against my belief of how life works. So I just want to say that the idea of.
I just want to say the idea of a simulation here for the listeners is the idea that, like what James was saying earlier, our brain can only process so much data and information at a given time. And so one of the things that I thought was fascinating in this book was the idea of how many bits of information per second our brain can process versus the bits of information that are actually hitting us per second from all five senses. And that is taste, smell, touch, hearing, sight. So right now, like I thought about it, Daniel, we're sitting. Both sitting in rooms. You know, we're recording this show right now. There's a certain temperature, there's certain noises. You know, I can hear landscapers outside, you know, going a yard.
You know, there's certain smells. None of that right now is filtering in, really, in my main attention span, because I gotta be dialed in with talking with you and doing all this stuff we're doing to make this show. So it's an example where. And the specific number they gave in the book for the audience here is there's 11 million bits of information that hit us every second, all five senses. Our brain only has the ability to process around 50,000 bits per second.
So naturally, there's a lot of stuff going on that we're just not aware of because we'd be going crazy.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Consciously aware of is the key piece. Consciously aware of, like our conscious reality is only with the processing of the information, not all of the information that actually can be picked up by our senses.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Correct. And I don't want to go off a tangent, but I learned this separately from the book, that autism is an example where the brain, for whatever reason, brain chemistry wise, is actually dialed in a lot more. And so to your point about how a human can operate and function in society, you know, autism, especially extreme cases, is an example that when the brain is turned on to more of these bits, it actually, the human being is not able to function in the way that a person that has a limited exposure to all this information is able to function. And so to me, that was very interesting because. And then I'll hand it back just to give you. Because in my brain, I like to have fun doing stupid Math games. So I started playing around in my head and I got to. In 300 seconds, there'll be 330 million bits of information that kind of hit my senses, but I'm only able to process 15 million bits of those.
And so I just started thinking about, like, my whole life, I didn't count the amount of sections.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Well, it's actually less than that because it's not 50,000. It's 55. 0 bits of information out of the 11 million. So it's.
It's actually, you know, it's a.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Okay, so you're telling me my math was all screwed up then?
[00:10:39] Speaker A: It's a lot. You can take in a lot of information.
You can only process consciously a certain amount of it, which actually.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Well, hold on. But that's important because if I was wrong, I was wrong. But my point is that makes it even more extreme in terms of. If it's 11 million bits and we can only process 50, 55. 0. So.
So, yeah, so that remains. Creates.
Yeah, yeah, but. But that's what I'm saying. It makes it a more extreme point, actually, than even what I. What I mistakenly.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: The point is still, that's what I'm saying is that is pull in all of this information. Your brain consciously can process a small amount of that. And you know, to me, like, I've been. Since I've read this, I drive around and I'm like, wow. So all of the stuff that I'm experiencing right now, consciously, I'm only picking up. I'm only picking up aware. So the book connects, though, which was really interesting to me, is that. So if you're only getting 50 at a time, how when I look around, I'm seeing all these things, they're still there. What your brain actually does with that is based on its experience and its beliefs. It will fill in the gaps. Your brain fills in the gaps. That's the simulation, basically, is here's what if I see a car moving this direction and then I look away, and then I see it in the corner of my eye, maybe, or something like that, or I'm not focusing on it anymore. Your brain fills in the gaps. And okay, well, since we know that car was moving that direction, that car is going to keep moving that direction, so to speak. And it goes even further. Like, one of the examples he gave that really illustrated this concept was he talking about a conversation he had with his mother.
And it was before it was in front of his wife. And so he's having this conversation with his mother. She makes A comment.
And he takes. Because his mind, in his mind, she's a judgmental person. She's not grateful about stuff. Generally speaking, she makes a comment and he takes offense. He's like, yo, that's like. He started. And he starts an argument.
And then his wife is like, what's going on here? She made an innocuous comment here. But he brought, you know, in his mind because of his. Because of what he thought of her already.
He applied a lot. He applied a different context to the comment that she made, that his wife, because she didn't have that same belief framework as far as his mother being this or his mother being that, didn't apply any of that. She just took the word straight up. Which was interesting to me, because when he gave the example, I'm like, that comment isn't really. That comment was not. That was harmless. But then I'm thinking to my mind, oh, okay, so then if I. But if I look at this from the perspective of a person who thinks this, whose beliefs about this person or that, oh, they're always ungrateful, or this and that, then I will receive the comment, the same comment differently. And so that is again, how these beliefs define the experience that you'll have with something based on how people interact with you or what happens to you, you know, if you believe you're lucky. And the book actually talks about this. Like, people who believe they're lucky have different perceptions about things that are going on. They're more likely to notice things that then make them lucky than someone who believes they're unlucky and so forth. And so it's. And that's been being tested and so forth. So it really is. It's the simulation piece. And again, like the word, you're right, the word is important. It's not saying that this is some computer simulation that we're walking around in like the Matrix. It's saying that your brain itself is taking in certain information. It's sampling information here and there and then filling in the rest for you. And when it fills in the rest, it can alter or adjust or corrupt how you see certain things because your brain is. Without you recognizing it. This is happening unconsciously to your conscious mind. Your brain is adding in layers to things that may not have been there, you know, until it's like, oh, wow. Or may not have been there objectively to someone who doesn't have those same layers, which, I mean, I'll say this, I'll kick it back to you. But the thing about that, to me is, like, I'm amazed that we're able to get along at all as human beings. If we're all kind of walking around, seeing everything through our own set of beliefs, then I think we do a great job of interacting with each other and giving each other grace, because it seems like things that go south with that really quickly.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think it's very interesting where you're ending here because that explains why I think that society, especially through the filter of social media and the Internet, feels chaotic for many of us, especially those of us that are old enough to remember life before this. Because it's a good point. I mean, if we have filters and we're in a simulation because our brain can only filter so much information, 50 bits out of 11 million per second, then that means the algorithm space and sending us information so fast that triggers us, will force our brain to kind of focus on whatever the belief system is that is developed over our lifetime. Prior to seeing a post. Let's say what's been shoved into those 50 bits every second. Right. And not the diaspora, I could say, or diversity of the 11 million bits that might have actually been out there.
And that's what's interesting about even where you went with telling the story about the author and his mother and that interaction, because I want to just piggyback on that before we jump to the next part of this conversation, which is, I think that is a great way to explain what we discussed at the beginning, which was the simulation part, which is because of the limited amount of bits, kind of the information that we actually can process on a regular basis.
You're right. That he began to have a belief system again, doesn't mean it was true. But the belief system he had about how his mother was and when she addresses him, then he got triggered by her response in that situation. And it's just very interesting. That's what I mean by actually.
Again, the ability for us to, through the modern technology, learn this about how the brain works allows us then to kind of process, like you're saying, how we interact with each other as people. And I think it's fascinating. Even the thing you said about luck, there's another quote I had here was, he said, success becomes impossible the moment we stop trying.
It's a different version of what you said about people who think they're lucky and maybe they might try things more. They might expose themselves to more opportunity, which means that they end up having more success in certain areas, which leads them to continue that behavior. So then everyone else looks and says, wow, they're so successful. And someone who doesn't mirror that behavior may not have the same type of successes and then diverts into a different experience in life and has a belief system that then perpetuates them to not try things. And so, like, you could extrapolate this out in many areas of just how we all function in life.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: To put some meat on the bones.
One of the piece.
One of the studies he referenced talked about a setup that was given to a bunch of people. They asked people whether they thought they were lucky or not. Then they had them review a series of papers, and they were supposed to find a particular object in the papers. And in that series of papers, though, there was a page that said, hey, if you come to this page, stop looking.
The exercise is over. You can go collect $250.
And the people who before this said, yeah, I'm the type of person that's lucky. Lucky stuff happens to me.
They were statistically significantly more likely to see that page than the people who consider themselves unlucky who just kept scrolling through, kept scrolling through and didn't even notice the page, you know, so just because it wasn't what they were looking for. So, you know, the, The. The expanded perception of seeing something that's not what you're looking for was more correlated to people who consider themselves lucky, which may have a. Maybe just a correlation, or it may be causation, you know, or there may be some causation with that. So, yeah, it.
The person. The point being, and there's three things that he said. Basically, that your belief system, you know, kind of like the. The powers of belief, basically that he said, you know, that it's the. Your beliefs influence and shape your. Your attention, your perception. What you. What you notice around you is shaped by your beliefs. And like, the example you gave when we were talking about this was, you know, the. What the studies that are done with, you know, if you got a young African American in the store and, you know, like, the beliefs of the clerks will be like, oh, well, this person is more likely that I got to worry about this. And, you know, where they'll run the test and they'll have like an old, old white lady or something in the store at the same time, and she's dropping stuff in her bag. And then the black person is not doing anything. But their eyes are, you know, focused. Their attention is focused on where they. Their belief tells them the biggest risk is and not at all on where they think that there is no risk, even though that is robbing Them blind the second piece. So it was attention, anticipation. So that. And we'll get into that, actually, in the next session. As for next section, as far as how your beliefs can affect your body physiologically based on what your anticipated results are based on what's happening to you at a moment, what. What's supposed to happen next, so to speak. And then agency, which is to. To act on your beliefs. You take actions based on your beliefs that you might not take if you didn't have those same beliefs. So. But, yeah, I know you wanted to keep us moving, man.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: I'm just.
I'm just laughing, James, because I keep thinking about the belief system of so many of these things, and it just really is killing me that this book is like a life.
I think I recommend everyone read it. And we're not getting paid by the author, by the way, so let me keep going. But one of the things that, to me, I think that was very interesting and I want to ask you about is kind of how the author got into the idea of the placebo effect.
And considering that the book really did a lot of. To explain why it actually works. And I think most people listening to this will have heard of the placebo as a concept, the idea that there's a drug, and then maybe you give a certain study group a pill that doesn't contain the drug, and you watch how both groups, those that are given the drug and those who haven't, how their bodies or their minds respond.
So tell me about that place.
What stood out about that part of the discussion, or, sorry, the book to you, in terms of the effectiveness of this belief system on the placebo and kind of on us as humans.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Well, I think it explains because generally speaking, people have heard the placebo effect, and there's not really a good explanation for why that happens, which it'll be like, okay, yeah, we got 100 people. We're gonna test this drug, and 50 of them are gonna get the drug. 50 of them are just gonna get a sugar pill, but nobody knows who's getting what other than the people running the study.
And so let's say 40 of the 50 who got the drug got better. But then, like, 25 of them, I'm just throwing out numbers, but this is kind of how it works. They're like 25 of the people who just got the sugar pill got better. And it's like, well, okay, cool. So the drug is working 80% of the time, but why are half of the people who just got the sugar pill getting better? You know, and now the caveat being he did go through when he talked about this part of the conversation, he went, took care to say there's a difference between sickness and illness. You know, like, so if you have a torn acl, the placebo effect won't heal that. But as far as things like pain, discomfort, things like that, those are the types of things that the placebo effect has been shown to improve. And so what really stood out to me about this, the big highlight was what he called the anticipatory physiological response.
And so what that is basically your brain has.
You got neurotransmitters and all that other stuff that can relieve pain or that can. That can do some of the stuff to treat sickness, not illness, but sickness.
And so when you take. When you think you're taking something that can be helpful to you, then your brain, your unconscious part of your brain, again, based on your belief system that, oh, this is something that solves this problem, this is something that kills pain, or this is something that, whatever this drug does this, then your brain can, anticipating that that's what's about to happen, can release some of the neurotransmitters that, let's say, if it's about killing pain, that'll kill pain. And it's like, well, great, because I didn't even take the medicine. I just told my body I was, or I just thought I was. And so that, to me, that anticipatory physiological response really stood out. And where it really got crazy was because a lot of times the placebo effect is seen where people don't know that whether they're given the real drug or not. But he actually cited studies in here where people were told they were given the placebo.
And hey, this. People been getting this placebo. But hey, you know, like kind of in the numbers I threw out before. But, you know, half of people that take this placebo report that their pain goes away. People take that and they're able to get benefits from it, even though they know they're taking a placebo. So, I mean, it was. It was fascinating to me, you know, as far as to see, like, how powerful believing that you're doing something that is helping you is on actually your brain saying, okay, well, let's make that happen.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that to me was fascinating too. And the idea of kind of ritual. And by ritual, I'm not saying praying and sacrificing virgins on the top of a frigging mountain or something. I'm just making a point of the ritual of Taking a drug every night, meaning pharmaceutical drug or a supplement type of thing. And that's where I looked at my own life and journey of I take a blood pressure pill, I take a statin every night and I take some supplements, stuff like that. So I started thinking these things could actually not work at all. But the fact that I'm taking them actually provides value because if I believe they work, my body may begin to respond in ways and secrete certain hormones or endorphins, whatever, that just because of the fact that I'm doing this in a ritualistic manner, in terms of every night around the same time, I have this routine and my brain believes that that's going to make me better. And in certain ways, maybe, you know, like that's what I'm saying, like maybe that's what I mean. It's fascinating to know that you could take a placebo and still get better knowing that it's a placebo.
And so I found that interesting. And one thing I'll say, and I know we're going to finish out here, is just to finish this section with you here on placebos is, you know, one reason why I would recommend people check out the book is we don't have time to decide everything here. But he gives great examples of these. So there was a gentleman that he didn't refer to the whole name. It's called a Mr. A, I guess to protect his anonymity. But apparently this gentleman, and quickly, the story is he walked into an ER and basically said, I'm gonna die. I took all these pills and I had a fight with my girlfriend and I just took the pill bottle and just Tunde the whole thing. And da, da, da, and everybody freaks out. They take him to the ICU or wherever. His vitals are terrible. You know, his blood pressure is 80 over something. It's really low. His heart rate's super low. They think he's going to die soon. All this and they're starting to frantically try and figure out what did he take. And he doesn't really know what it was. He's out of it.
Long story short, they find through I guess looking at the pill bottle that he was part of a study, and I guess it was a double blind study. They somehow get to the, I guess the research scientists and they find out that this guy was part of a study and he took the placebo.
So they end up telling him that, hey, dude, you actually didn't take anything. And then they tested him.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Remember, they tested him and he didn't have any Active ingredients in his body.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Correct. That's how they got to finding this, I guess they kept trying to figure out. Exactly. Thank you for that. Because that's important, that they didn't find in his body anything. So I kept looking. So, long story short, when they find out that he's the member of a study and he also was on the placebo side when they inform him of this, and I guess in a serious way to let him know he's got nothing in him that's causing this, they said within 15 minutes, all of his vital signs got back to normal. So again, that, to me was fascinating, that. Hold on. Because this guy believed he took all these pills that were actually some drug, his body reacted in a way that he shows up in the ER and he's actually dying.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: That's the anticipatory physiological response.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: So, yeah, and then the fact that when the doctors tell him, nah, dude, you were on the placebo, you actually don't have anything in you that will cause any difference. Within 15 minutes, his body begins to adjust and he's back to normal and walks out of the er. So it's fascinating that knowing that and then in the same way, knowing that a placebo can make a difference on someone. So that's the belief thing.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Beliefs are not truths. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: So, anyway, the other thing on the placebo.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: I know we want to finish up.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Well, the other thing on the placebo that I just had to mention was when you had mentioned this, actually the other day was talking about when they were testing the placebo on as far as steroids, and they were saying, hey, you know, like, hey, we're going to give people steroids, and then, you know, they can work out or whatever. And that people saw gains whether they were actually the ones getting the steroids or not. And the insight. The reason I bring that story up is because the insight that he gave in the book was that he said that placebos work by unlocking motivation, directing attention and. And triggering the natural physiological response. So for these people who thought they were, you know, they were in the study and they were. They thought they were getting steroids, but they actually weren't. What was observed is that they were. They pushed themselves harder because they thought they had steroids in their body. So they're like, all right, I can. I can get all that. So it changed the way they approached what they were doing. In addition to, like, we gave examples of the physiological. Whatever's going on physiologically, it also sharpened Their focus and made them actually, you know, lock in more, so to speak, because they thought they were getting help even though they weren't. You know, so it works on multiple levels. I know the last point that we wanted to get into just dealt with the idea of helplessness. And, you know, I just set it up real quick. The idea like. And psychologists have talked about this over time where. And they brought up this idea of learned helplessness. So, you know, people facing adversity, facing a challenge, and they kind of freeze and they're like, oh, you know, like, that's because their life experience, they learn that nothing they can they do matters. And so they learn this helplessness. And the other people who face adversity and they pushed forward and everything like that. They never learned helplessness. Well, what this book discusses is more recent research that reverses that, actually. That the human condition is one that when adversity happens and, you know, fear and all that stuff, that the freeze is the natural response. And learning how to push through that. Actually learned is learned through the idea, through the repetition and the idea, the belief that if I continue to work through this problem, I can get to the other side and improve. And he gave a fascinating example, I know, on this. But, you know, like, what was your thought on this? That this reversal on the idea of learned helplessness and actually that people have to learn in order to prevail and deal with adversity. Your belief system has to be updated to give you the tools to push through adversity, to learn that you should have hope and that you can get to the other side.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah, so this was one where there was a great example in the book where they studied rats and a certain group of rats that had been raised domestically in a group that was taken from Bailey, like, they were feral, they were taken from the wild and just dropped into this situation. And each one was put in, basically. It's kind of sad to think about it. They basically put them in water and force the rats to swim, basically to keep their head above water and try and stay alive until they drowned. And they found that the rats that had been raised domestically all went for long periods of time, some more than a day, before they really lost the kind of energy and ended up drowning.
The others that were brought in from the wild, none of them lasted more than 15 minutes.
And so the thing that was pretty fascinating to me to kind of speed up the example here is that they tried then to take, okay, the ones that are in the wild that are freaking out or from the wild that are freaking out when we put them in the water and dying early.
What they tried was once the rat was tired, wearing out, and close to drowning, the researcher would stick their hand and pull it out, save it, and then put it back in and make it go again. And then every time it was close to drowning for about four or five times, it would take it out.
So that the rat learned that as long as it kept trying, there's a possibility that the hand might come in and save it.
And I think, James, that they recorded those feral rats then began to. Swam for as long as 60 hours.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Yes. Like from 15 minutes?
Yeah. Like initially in the study, none of the rats were going past 15 minutes. And then once they conditioned them, then, you know, and this was that the feral rats were stronger, more powerful than the ones that were domesticated, and it didn't matter. But once they. Once they gave them the belief that it's possible to be saved, they go from Nobody going over 15 minutes to some going as long as 60 hours or longer.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that's why I highly recommend the book. We don't. Again, we don't have the ability to translate some of this stuff over the time. But the reality is, is that once you start reading that kind of stuff, your mind begins to extrapolate kind of in human society, all the different pressures and stresses we deal with from childhood all the way to adulthood and how that impacts our beliefs and things like that, like, will you quit? Will you persevere? All those little things come from how we kind of experience the journey as we go through it. So it's kind of fascinating.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Well, yeah, because what we end up seeing or what we're able to take from this, something like this, is that the beliefs can be updated. You know, that the beliefs, you may have a belief that is. Oh, that makes you inclined to not give up. You may not have ever learned that you can persevere through those types of things. And so if you never learned that you're like the rats initially and you give up within 15 minutes and then that's that. But you can update that if you have the information. Like, okay, well, I can update that. Let me. Let me value the importance of perseverance.
Try to take small wins as we talked about. Small wins, like I get up, I take a walk 15 minutes every day, something like that. Condition yourself to learn that the sustained effort can deliver you further than, you know, than you thought previously, you know, or that adversity, that chaos, the chaos around us is not something that should be run from, but that's the normal stage of existence, is the fight against chaos. So, yeah, we just, we recommend it highly. You know, it was a really interesting book. And it just came out, you know, in March, March of 2026. And so we already went through it. And, you know, something that would be a lot of value to, to expand your mind just really on what's possible, you know, within your own mind, you know, and so forth. So I think we can wrap this topic for.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: I got one more.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So we appreciate everybody for joining us on this episode of Call. Like I see it, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, tell us what you think, send it to a friend. Till next time, I'm James Keys.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: I'm Tunde Lana. All right, we'll.
