Episode Transcript
[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello.
Welcome to the Call It Like I See it podcast.
I'm James Keys, and in this episode of Call It Like I See it, we're going to react to the still evolving story involving all these high altitude flying objects that are getting detected and ultimately shot down over the US And Canada in particular.
And later on, we're going to take a look at fascia, which despite being a tissue that we have all over our bodies, is something that we really haven't studied that much from a scientific perspective or really even an athletic perspective. You know, there's been some looking at it in the past couple of decades, but just not that much compared to muscle and bone and so forth.
Joining me today is a man who is here to answer the question how high? Tunde Ogonlana Tunde, are you ready to tell the folks today about objects that are high enough to kiss the sky?
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Of course, man. But you know, that question of how high can be taken in various ways depending on the context. So we will use it for elevation and height today.
We'll save the other explanations for another discussion topic.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Okay. Okay, I Duly noted.
Now recording this on February 13, 2023. And I think most people have heard at this point about, you know, going back the the high altitude Chinese balloon that flew over the US all the way across the US and was ultimately shot down off the coast of South Carolina a little while back.
And since then, more objects have been spotted and detected, some of which weren't even as high as that original balloon. And as of today, we're up to four objects which have been spotted and shot down over US Or Canadian airspace.
But there's still a lot of unanswered questions here. And we all in the public are flying blind, pardon the expression on this.
But Joe, to get us started, Tunde, what did you think about how this balloon issue is being handled by officials, you know, like the people whose job it is to figure out what's going on here and do something about it, you know, with stuff like this, you.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Know, I don't really know, to be honest with you. I was going to say that I think that how it's being handled. My direct answer would be I think this. It kind of looks like a standard way they handle it. Right. They kind of fumble a little bit, you know, in terms of the administration. They fumble a little bit out of the gate with how to handle it, you know, in terms of their. What they're saying to the press and.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: And may not assume that the public would be that interested in it because It's a balloon. And it doesn't seem that, you know, it's not sexy, it's not some big story. But then of course, and that's where I guess when I can ask how it's being handled or answer how it's being handled, I would say to me, this has been going on roughly about.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Two weeks that we know about.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: That we know about. Yeah. Since the first Chinese balloon was spotted. Then these other objects that we don't really know yet what they are, hasn't been reported. Doesn't appear to be that. Like you said, it's different altitudes, different sizes from the Chinese one they're speculating could even be private corporations even. I saw speculation of that. It could be a university, research, you know, things, some of these balloons. So to me, keyword there.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Speculation, though.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So that's why I feel like they're. The administration is handling it in a standard way of any administration. I think with something new that has to do with military and intelligence stuff. They're not out there. First of all, you know, normally that stuff is behind the scenes and below the radar, quote, unquote, you know, in terms of media. So the fact anytime that stuff gets out in public, we know that any administration is going to be a little bit cagey how they deal with it. I think that the thing that interests me, and I'll pass it back here for your thoughts, is I just feel like this is another.
Like the media is causing like an anxiety and a panic that I don't think is necessary.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we'll get to that. But, you know, to me, I look at how it's being handled, I think, for one, I think it's pretty clear they were caught off guard by this, which I find to be interesting. And we can get into some of the reasons for that because some of that has come out in terms of, yeah, they're looking all the time, but there's so much data when you're looking at that much space, like it goes up for a long way and there's a lot of sky, a lot of space, a lot of area to kind of be monitoring with your radar and other tools at all times. And so a lot of stuff can. Can be detected, but if you don't not looking necessarily for it, then you might not make anything of it. So now they're looking for this stuff and they're seeing a lot. But the fact they were clearly off guard was notable to me. But how they reacted since they were being. They were clearly off guard. Is I'm, I'm okay with it from the standpoint of generally speaking. I mean, I think that it's something that I don't know if everybody keeps in the front of their mind, but there's a lot of stuff that goes on that, that we're not aware of, you know, and so it just happens to be that we're aware of this one right now. But there was no catastrophic problem that happened as a result of this. So, I mean, in that case, okay, well, they're doing enough. They would, they're, they're figuring new stuff out, you know, looking for this stuff now that they're aware of it. They shot it down. Nobody got hurt when they shot it down. And so I can, I can live with all those outcomes if there's, if people want to say, oh, well, you know, they're, they're looking at, they've gathering intelligence on us while these things are in the air and so forth, like, maybe, but, you know, like, people are gathering intelligence all the time, you know, like, so I'm sure there are more sophisticated ways of gathering intelligence rather than flying a balloon around as well. So, you know, that may be, that may have occurred, but now they're on it and now they're paying attention to it. And so like, the ability to be, even when you're caught off guard, to kind of, okay, let's get our feet under us and then let's adjust. I'm looking at things like that. That to me is good kind of leadership and good way to approach things. You know, sometimes things are going to hit you all hit, knock you off balance, you get your feet under you, you, you, you make some decisions and then you adjust so you can moving forward. You won't be caught off guard by the same kind of thing. So I, I was fine with it from that standpoint again, because I also acknowledge that, one, there's a bunch of stuff that goes on like this all the time that I don't know. And two, we don't have all the information as far as what's going on here. Even they don't clearly have a full picture yet, and we don't either, and we have even less than they do. So I'm not really in a position to critique it a ton, you know.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I, same here. That's why I said to me, it's kind of a standard, you know, response, especially when, like I said, dealing with this military stuff, we don't always get the full transparency on purpose because it is a lot of Secret stuff. And they like, you're saying a lot of stuff's going on.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Well, let me throw something at you real quick because I wanted you to react to it. One of the things that like, yes, so what I just expressed is a modicum of deference. Hey, I don't have a bunch of information. You have more information and then you're. It's your job, not my job, you know, to figure that stuff out. The reason, though, I'm willing to offer that deference in a situation like this is because I haven't gotten any indication. I haven't seen anything that indicates that the response here was something that was political in nature, was something about either grabbing or retaining power or embarrassing your political opponents like this. The decision making here didn't have politics in its fingerprints. That's where. When you see stuff like that, that's where I'm more like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on here? If you're making decisions based on best available information, based on your own sensibilities, you know, whatever. Like different people might make different decisions, but you're not doing it because, oh, I can get a political advantage here or I can make somebody else look bad. So to me, that'd be on the reverse end. That's what we didn't see. That I think is worth pointing out that, hey, we didn't see this become a political issue from the people that were making the decisions on it. That wasn't where they ran to. So I was encouraged by that as well, in the sense that, hey, maybe we should expect that, but it's still good when it actually happens. So I wanted to throw that while you were about to talk. I wanted to make sure I threw.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: That at you as well. Unfortunately, I was discouraged by all the politicians who made it into a political issue afterwards.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: But those weren't the people making the decisions.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: No, I know. That's where I was talking about the media and all the pundits and everyone else trying to jockey for their viewers attention. But real quick, before we get onto that tangent, which I know we'll get onto it later. No, but just to talk about it, because to me, this is where it gets interesting and you start thinking about the bigger picture of stuff. Right? So like you said, there's a lot going on now. We did a show probably about two years ago on the UFO stuff. Remember that? This has been a bigger conversation in recent years or even do you remember we talked about. I think now I'm jogging my own memory. The show was because the Pentagon announced At some point, this might even been back late in the Trump administration that they acknowledged that UFOs exist and no one cared. Remember we were saying, like, yeah, we were like, yeah, this was 30, 40 years ago. This would have been the biggest news. The US Government admits that there's stuff.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: There and up there that you don't.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: We don't know. Yeah. So that was. So when this all happened, that's what I kind of thought of. And especially when we seen. If those people that have seen it, there's. And you can go to YouTube and catch some of this footage of, you know, fighter jet pilots and others on their, you know, you can see the footage from their own screens of these, what look like these kind of cylindrical objects in the sky just kind of sitting there and the pilots are talking like, what is that? And I started thinking about that, like, this stuff, whatever this stuff is, have been floating around for a few years, probably. What. You know, whether it's top secret stuff from us or other countries, obviously if it's a certain level of secrecy, I'm sure our fighter pilots might not know about it. Right. So they could be flying around and run into some other country's espionage balloon or whatever. Or even, like I said, what if it is a research balloon from a private corporation or from a university? It's just stuff going around like you're saying. And then I'm looking here, that this Chinese one was at 60 to 65,000ft in altitude.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Which is double. Where are the highest. You know, the commercial civilian flights that we normally fly go around 30,000 to 35 max.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: So this is higher than most of us have ever been. And my point is, is that.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Told you Tunde was here to tell you how high.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, one could edit out what I just said.
Pretty good memes with that one. So I'll let you guys have fun with that.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: But that's higher than most of us have ever been.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: But no, you're right.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: We'll leave it at that. And so much higher.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Much higher.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: But, but. So the point I'm making is that if I'm flying an F18 or an F16 in the middle of the night, and I'm at, you know, 50,000ft and all of a sudden 10,000ft higher, there's this cylindrical thing, of course I'm gonna be freaked out and report back to the base, say, what the hell is that? Now here's why. What's interesting, after reading stuff again to me, why we gotta. Like, I just. The level of Hysteria and anxiety. Constantly with all these things kills me because when you think about it, this stuff can't happen. When you think about these altitudes and what's going on, this stuff can't. You can't find out what this is in two seconds.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: So if it gets to the media that we have a balloon in the air, think about it. 65,000ft is pretty high. We got one plane that can go that higher, higher, which is a U2.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Spy plane. There's only 27 of them in operation in the whole US military right now. So, number one, some of these things might be working. Spying on other stuff. Right. Number two is I never flown a plane like that. I've never flown a plane, actually. But I got to imagine getting a plane like that off the ground and getting it to 70,000ft in the air is probably going to take about a day, you know, figuring it, or at least a day and a half to two days. Getting the mission ready, getting the pilot, getting the plane ready, and then making the decisions, everybody talking to get it up there, then when it's up there, is going to spend a day photographing it, which it did. And that's how they got all those high resolutions to know that it had solar panels, it had the antennas. That's how they, the Americans, identify that it was an espionage balloon, not a weather balloon like the Chinese said. And so what I'm saying is we already got two days in, right there and then. So there's a lot more.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: But people, once it. Once it gets out there, everybody wants immediate answers.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: That was kind of my point. And so that's all I'm saying is that you start reading into this stuff and you're like, yeah, there's a lot of logistics that comes out with just figuring out what it is first and then figuring out, okay, what do we do after the fact? So, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: I mean, and I want to talk actually about how it was covered, you know, later on. So, I mean, I don't want to go too far into that. You know, the other thing I'll mention about this is the fact that it's subsequently come out like that. Now that we're. We know how to look for these things, now that we've adjusted our, you know, our. We've tuned our. All our data collection to say, okay, this is what this means, that this has been happening for a while. And, you know, but again, that goes back to this whole thing of there's so much going on at all times that we don't know now the one thing I mean, in this point's been beaten. This has been beaten into the ground already. But, I mean, I think it's just worth remembering. Like, everybody's worried about all this. Oh, you know, they're stealing signals, they're doing this, they're doing that, they're taking information. But we rarely contemplate how much information we voluntarily give away and, you know, like, all the time, like individuals. And so, I mean, it's. It's one of those things that it's almost like certain things, the initial shock of it, the initial surprise of it throws. Just throws us off so much, and then we start acting rash and we start, you know, just talking all this stuff. And so, again, I look at it from a leadership standpoint, and I was happy that leadership didn't do that, basically, that they didn't blow their lid off, basically, on the surprise and the shock of it. It's all right for regular citizens to do that, because regular citizens will forget about something like this in two weeks. You know, once, you know, two weeks after, it's. It'll be something else that everybody's hysterical about, so to speak. But I like the, you know, and this is the last point I wanted to make on, you know, just how it was being handled, that it seemed to be cooler heads. You know, people were. Were making decisions like, hey, let's gather information, let's make decisions. One of the things about the initial balloon that I found immediately notable was that a decision was made, like you said, because it's so high, that it wasn't a threat, you know, from a. Like an immediate standpoint. So they were able to then take a more cautious approach. These other ones, though, some of these other ones have been lower. And so they've. They've been more like, shoot first, ask questions later. Because when they're lower, when they're in potentially airspace that potentially could be with our commercial airlines or where the military is doing stuff, that's a different issue, you know, so that we've seen that, that it's been more of an aggressive, aggressive approach when they're in a different space. So. But I do, like, now we're going to move into speculation time, you know, like. But I think this is pretty interesting. Like, we don't know obviously what's going on here, but, okay, we have satellites, we have, you know, an Internet where people can skim data, you know, all the time. Obviously, there's. There's encryption and everything like that, but, you know, and then we just have. We broadcast signals over the air all the time. So what do you think the Chinese were doing? Or do you have any idea based on what you've read and so forth? Like what's the, what's, what's the, what's the play here? Like we're gonna send out these boat, these balloons, we're gonna put antennas on them, we're just gonna skim these radio signals, radio wave signals and, and hope that nobody notices. Cause that's, there's two pieces there, what they're doing actively and then why they thought it would be cool. Yeah, nobody would have a problem with this.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: No, it's interesting. That's, that's a good question. So I think like you said, I mean we clearly are speculating here without being in part of the Chinese intelligence services, so which clearly I'm not.
So I do think, you know, it appears from what, you know, at least our government's telling us that this was what they call in the espionage world, signals and signals intelligence apparatus. Yeah, and like you're saying, and it's funny, I went to the National Security Agency website and I figured, you know, let's go to the source and see how, what, how they define signals intelligence. So they call it sigint, as for short, is intelligence derived from electronic signal, electronic signals and systems used by foreign targets, such as communication systems, radars and weapons systems to provide a vital window for our nation into foreign adversaries, capabilities, actions and intentions. So basically they were doing the same thing, Right. China's got its own version of the nsa, the National Security Agency that we have, which is in, basically is the number one agency for our government in charge of signals intelligence. Then probably number two would be the, you know, sharing number two would be the CIA for international and then the FBI for domestic surveillance. So obviously China, along with every other government actually in the world, but primarily those governments that have the resources in terms of, you know, the wealth and the technology, everybody spy on each other. There's been well documented cases. I mean we did a little bit through extension of a book review, we did the case of Ana Montez, which is when the Cubans had a full on look into our intelligence work on them through a US spy.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: I think she just got released recently.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah, she did just get released, yeah. After 20 years. I remember a story of the Israelis had, were spying on us in 1983. We found all this. They were getting all the signals intelligence and that created a rift between our two countries for a little bit. So. And then we've got the famous ones, right? Like like what happened in the election in 2016, that is maybe not as direct of a traditional kind of espionage operation because it involves some social media, more public things, but basically packing at.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: The DNC is what I thought.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, That's a good one too. They're packing both of DNC and rnc.
[00:18:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: But actually just using the weaponizing one and not the other. So clearly these are examples of why countries do this. So that's what we assumed that China was doing, was putting another tentacle out there because they've got their TikTok, they got the regular. They've got. They produce every iPhone in China. So I'm pretty sure there's other ways that they're already been spying on us. I mean, I think by building all.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: This stuff, computer chips in it and then sitting over here and we all put them in our own.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: I think that we've all given them access to our stuff already. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to continue to look for ways to continue to spy. Right. And there's probably is something they can get from 65,000ft in the air with a really high level of signal interception that they may not get other ways. So is that what I think was going on? Yeah. Now the other thing that's interesting is which I think this is where us as Americans, our media gets us too hysterical is that everybody else doesn't think that we do this too. That's gonna be my point here. We do the same thing. China just complained that we have had 10 balloons over their country in the last year.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: I'm sure, I'm sure people know that the US does it too. They just don't care.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: They think that's saying that Americans really think.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: I'm sure Americans, but a lot of.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Americans believe that when something like this happens, like, oh my God, this is the. They're spying on us and we have no way of doing the same thing to them. Oh, my goodness.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Those Americans are pretty naive.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: So we are at the top of that game, you know. That's right. I would say this. It's interesting. Like, yes, I took this as just some conventional spy craft, basically. And I mean, you and I, you know, we had talked about the document we didn't talk about on the show, but we talked about actually doing something for the show on the Netflix documentary Spy and talking about how like spying all the country, all countries are spying on each other at all times. And so this was just, this was one of China's less discrete Ones. Well, apparently it used to be discreet, and then now it's less discreet, you know, that they're doing. But I was. I was just wondering, like. Because so much of what we use here is made in China, and these things are black boxes. Like, it's not like I come home from buying a television and open it up and see all the things that it's doing.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: You know, there's that chip that's listening to me. Or take that out.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Well, hold on, hold on. Or potentially communicating with some. Some balloon 60,000ft in the air. My refrigerator is like, yeah. Or my. My. My alarm. My home alarm. It's like, yeah, yeah. So to me, you know, what that.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Balloon was gonna do was change your AC setting. That's what it was gonna do.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: The Chinese are just gonna start messing with us. That's a new. That's a new.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, It'll skim my schedule. It'll know. Hey, okay, he take times it on. Come on then. And often. And they're out of town then, and yada, yada, yada. I mean, obviously, the. There's so much data being generated all the time, you know, like. And that's kind of, you know, to me, what this. What I thought of with this. Like, as you pointed out, they're still collecting data in other ways. They're collecting information in other ways. But, yeah, this was another tentacle to do to. To try to deal with that because so much of the data passes through the Internet all the time, but it. You know, a lot of times it's going through encrypted channels. Maybe the thought is, if you could pull it off the air directly, it's less encrypted. It's not doing the same level of Christian, at least whatever you're looking for. So there's a lot. Like, to me, it's less about what specifically what they were doing and more about what were they not doing. Like they could be doing. Like, it's all about information gathering. And again, we give them such an in anyway, which, again, people don't seem to either be conscious of or aren't that bothered by because they're used to it. We give them such an in anyway that it's like, okay, well, this is just, again, another way that they're doing it. Like, even that Netflix documentary had eight parts going into all these different ways that there was all this espionage happening at all the time. And this.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Remember, they had the lady who literally was. I believe she was a spy to try that got caught at Mar a Lago Yeah, yeah. She had, like, a thumb drive in her purse and she. Oh, I just was coming here to, like, drop this off. Yeah, right. Lady, we know what you're doing. So. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Is that. Yeah. Or the Maria Butina, the one that was the Russian. That was the spy that was, you know, in the NRA and all that last decade. So, yeah, there's a lot of this stuff, and we're doing it, too.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. This stuff is all the time. All the time. Everybody's doing it and so forth. And so, like, in my mind, when I saw this, I was actually, I was, okay, this is good in a sense that, okay, we're going to take this now and we're going to see what they're doing. You know, I'm happy that we got to grab this thing and. And then we got. They didn't. It didn't get destroyed when it came out of the ground or when it came down to the ground level. And I'm like, okay, yeah, tear that thing apart. Know all what's going on. And I mean that. That's because this is. I hate to put it like this, but this is the spy game. Like, this is what's happening all the time. So at least now we got one of their balloons, you know, like, we'll be able to check it out and see all the stuff we're doing, develop countermeasures. Then they're going to develop stuff to try to get around that. And, like, this stuff is perpetual, basically.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: I know.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: And, you know, so go ahead.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Like, I just started thinking as you were finishing off about the Blackhawk helicopter that was stealth. And the only reason why we learned about that it exists is because the. One of the two crashed in the raid to get bin Laden, remember?
[00:23:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: If that helicopter didn't crash, all we would have heard on the next day is, we got bin Laden.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: They wouldn't be like, oh, but guess what? We got these new Black Hawk helicopters that no one can see coming in their country. That was like the worst thing. I'm sure our intelligence and our military was like, everyone's going to know that we can get in there without losing it is bad.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: Like, it's a bad thing when you lose that point. You have.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: And I remember one of the things that at least, you know, the Navy seals know what they're doing, right. They are. They already prepare for these things. And they had explosives on the helicopter.
[00:23:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: So when they were leaving with bin Laden's body they blew up the one on the ground. And who knows? Hopefully they blew up enough. But even the panels on the surface. And that's one thing I was thinking about. I mean, look, here's one thing that I.
That sometimes pains me watching how we do this discourse in this country, because it's like everybody's an expert every week of some new topic, Right. This stuff is complicated and I have a little window on it just because I have a love for aviation. You know, me with my fighter jets and all that. And so I watched the documentaries. You know, there's paint that they have on the F22s and F35s, which is. It's a top secret type of paint that absorbs radar signals so that they don't give off the same signals. Who knows if this balloon and the payload on it was dripped and, you know, dipped in that stuff where that.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: Or something else. Yeah.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: That we couldn't see it that well. Plus, like we talked about, it's at 65,000ft. Our radars aren't looking for stuff that high because like I said, only the U2 spy plane is the only plane in the world that can go to height.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: The ceiling on normal fighter jets is like 50,000, 40,000, like they did. Nobody really flies that high. So that's one thing. The second thing I was thinking is, and this is all speculation now, but could I spin it as a positive that maybe the Chinese satellites aren't that great, they got to fly these stupid balloons around. Because again, I was thinking about my friend who I've told you about this. He told me this in 2010. I remember because it was at a Christmas party and I remember what year it was. So we're talking 13 years ago. And at the time he worked at Lockheed Martin on the spy satellites as a contractor. And again, he didn't ever tell me some top secret stuff, but he told me the capabilities that he could tell me about. He was telling me that he had listened to conversations of Hugo Chavez when he was alive and leading Venezuela through a bunker.
[00:25:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Under. From a satellite.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: That's when he was telling me. He goes, man, we can turn any piece of metal on your body into basically a refractor that will, you know, with the vibration from your voice, it turns into a microphone. And I thought, think about back then in 2010, I'm thinking the technology to hear somebody talk from space when they're underground in a bunker. We got that. And then I thought about that if it wasn't for the Jamal Khashoggi killing. We would not know that the CIA has the ability to listen inside of other countries embassies.
[00:26:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Because we had the signals intelligence from the Syrian embassy in Turkey. And again, the intelligence community hates when that stuff gets out.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Because now they're like, oh, now everybody.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Starts to develop countermeasures. That's what I'm saying. Like that, that is, it is not even to spin it positively, but that is an implication here is that China is angry about this and you know, they're pretending they're angry because of this.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it was a weather balloon and now they're.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: We got their thing now. And now we can develop, you know, like now we know, you know, so to speak. And so to me, that. But that's how again, that's part of the spy game. That's part of the espionage game. This is something. And so we get to see this play out, you know, in public a little bit. We don't get a lot of information. But you raise a good point. And I'm going to, you know, turn you loose now because everybody is an expert. And that stuck out to me as well. Like everybody became an expert on national defense and espionage when this thing came out. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: So that was just an Expert on the F22. Cause that was its first, it's first kill in action was a balloon. That was pretty cute.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. At least. But at least it has one now. But at least that we know of.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: But it has three now. That's cool.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Well, yeah, true.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: All balloons.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: But so what was your thought on how this was covered and how this was received in the American public, you know, or by the American public and so forth. So, and that get, you know, like, like I said, I think, I know you've been. Been eager to dip your toe in as far as how the media reacted as far as how the public reacted. And obviously those two are interrelated. And then politicians as well, you know, like, in terms of people trying to make this a partisan advantage type of thing versus, you know, hey, let's, let's get our espionage and our defense game right.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: How much time we got, bud?
Nah, man. I mean, look, to piggyback to what I said earlier about, you know, it's really, it's really glaring to me. I just, and I don't know why. Maybe it's because I watch less of cable news now and, and so it just sticks out to me more and more the amount of just constant, like the way that we relate to the media in this country is. I can see why everyone is on pins and needles with their anxiety and distress. Because, I mean, seriously, this has been going on for two weeks. I turned on the TV this morning, just cbs, not even cable, just regular network news. And it's all they talk about is the stupid balloons. And then, you know, all these. All these other UFOs now and this and that. And at least they're not extraterrestrials they're trying to freak us out with anymore. But it's just right. And it's just like. It's like we been talking about since the start of the discussion. Obviously, I'm not going to say, who cares? Obviously, this is something important that another country been flying stuff over our country. But like we said, we fly stuff over other countries. That's life, right? Let's not talk about all the countries or satellites looking at each other right now, too, that we just don't see and we can't shoot down. So. But it's so much reminded me of the classified documents saga, which I guess was the last outrage, like three weeks.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Ago, our last Chicken Little event, because.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: It was like, okay, it happened.
And let's take out the fact that. The way President Trump responded and all that stuff. But let's just take into the account the fact that now we've learned, right. It before, literally, like a few months ago, us thinking that any government official taking literally the highest classified and sensitive information home was an absolute faux pas. No, no, you can't do that. Blah, blah, blah.
And now we're just learning, like, oh, okay, I guess they all do it. I mean, like I told you, I heard they were going back to Jimmy Carter, that he took stuff home. And then they. They're calling up the agencies that like, eight months later, oh, man, we found this in a box. Come get it. You know, like, okay, so now I'm just realizing after China's blaming us for flying 10 balloons in the last year after, you know, we talk. We didn't talk about this, but apparently China has 40 of these things going around the world. You know, they've spawned them in India and in Colombia and all these other countries.
[00:30:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: And they're speculating that some of these in the Arctic, that they just got this. This last few. One of them might have been Russian, because with the Arctic thawing out, there's all this competition between us, the Chinese and the Russians for all the minerals and the natural resources that can now be drilled in the Arctic. And I was just thinking, like, okay, so just like the classified stuff, like, yeah, this is a big deal now, but it looks like everybody's been doing this. Like, you know, now we're just going to shoot down random stuff all the time when this stuff's been flying around. Like I said, they thought it was extraterrestrials five years ago, and now we're just finding out as everyone's finding each other. So that's why it just bothers me the way that our media reacts to all these things. Like, they're the biggest emergency ever. Ever. Right?
[00:30:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: Every single one of them.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: And what you're pointing out, I mean, and this is just. I mean, again, it.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so that was a rant.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: News media is news media. And it's disappointing to see this from news media, because ideally, you would want news media to try to increase understanding, you know, to give you information, try to help you understand it, try to help you contextualize it and so forth. But that's just not what happens anymore. I mean, this is at the risk of being too repetitive, because we've hit on this, we've given examples of this in other scenarios where our news media presents things to maximize interest, not understanding. And so because of that, they're not going to present it. They're going to present it in a way that this is the most urgent thing ever in the history of the world, whether it is or not, you know, and so they game us constantly in terms of, oh, look at this, this is the most important thing in the world. And then two weeks later, it's something else is the most important thing in the world. And then two weeks later, and you're pointing to the classified document thing is a fair analogy in a sense. Again, and as you pointed out, taking away, like, everybody deals with the classified document issue one way, like, oh, my bad here, you know, here you go. And then it just goes away. Trump said, actually, this is my stuff. You know, I can hide. This is like. Until it became more than it would be. So taking away that fact, the way Trump sues the government about it and all, like, all of that Trump stuff, just looking at the classified documents, things, we were led to believe that this was the craziest thing in the world, you know, beyond. Again, beyond looking at Trump's reaction. But we were. That this is. Oh, my God, how could this ever happen? Then come to find out, yeah, this is very common, actually. And they normally, they just work it out, you know, okay, yeah, if they. If they figure it out, a lot of times they're not even looking for it and don't figure it out. But this is the same kind of thing now, you know, where it's something that apparently has been going on, we learn about it, but the media sees an opening to say, hey, we can present this in a way that, I mean, we've heard the term sensationalize and so forth, but we can present this in a way to make people watch and to make people not want to turn it off. And so that's basically what you're seeing here. And the media's, to various extents, played that game the whole time, but that's what we're dealing with now. And then the politicians, you know, that's the political game too. You know, you see, the politicians that everything is about political advantage versus certain things are serious and we have to deal with them a certain way and we'll deal with them in through the channels that they're meant to be dealt with because our government's set up like that and other people don't. And so for that, it's not to say that the politicians who want to make everything partisan advantage have to, shouldn't be doing it or whatever. They're free to do that, but ideally the citizenry pays attention and say, okay, well, if that's how I want, when potential security or espionage issues comes up, do I want a politician that just makes it about politics or don't want a politician that's like, hey, let's make sure that we adjust, we adapt so that, you know, again, because this kind of stuff is going to happen all the time. So, you know, either we adjust and we adapt or we focus on trying to put our thumb in the other guy's eye at the time. So we just got to remember that stuff in terms of how people react to quote, unquote, crisis or, you know, new information. And. And then ideally we can, we can make decisions based on that as far as what we watch, who we follow, you know, who we, you know, vote for and all that.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: No, that's a good point. I think some of that comes down to maybe how we're wired as individuals, the kind of households we grew up in and how we, you know, because really, a leader is kind of like a parent. Right. You're looking at them to react in a certain way that makes you feel comforted. Yeah, and it's, and it's interesting.
Yeah. And it's funny that as I say it like that it makes me realize like, you know, I was raised in a household that wasn't full of chaos and you know, so I'm not comforted when someone is out there acting erratic as a leader.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: I'm more comfortable somebody else might.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Feel that that's strength like out there and beat your chest and.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: And that's where I'm going first and think later.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's where I'm going with actually my comment here. You're helping me get it out because I guess because of how I'm wired and how I grew up. Right. I'm more actually confident when someone is just measured and stoic and like you said, just kind of they're able to adjust along the course based on the facts. Right. Like, okay, if this is happening now that I, and I thought it was going to be this now I got to make a change. And what was interesting when I was looking at some of the political reactions, I mean again, that's where I'll say from a negative standpoint, I was saddened and just disappointed that this is just another thing that everyone just immediately within the first day of this balloon being cited. It just the line that, you know, that the fault lines were drawn. All the Republicans are going to blame Biden, that it's just his fault no matter what. And all the Democrats are trying to figure out how to defend him and not blame him, but not sure what to say yet because.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: Or being mad at him for not being more, you know, like aggressive with it. And let's not make decisions based on what the other side politically is going to do.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: And that's what I mean. And that gets to the point about the media because in the end, in this landscape of the 24 hour news and the Internet and all that, everybody feels like they got to just say something all the time. And it creates this hyperpartisanship and, or I shouldn't say creates it, but it exacerbates it. Definitely. Yeah.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Because nobody knows what they're talking about when they first get out there. Everybody's operating. And that goes to your point earlier when you were saying how, you know, every cable news every, every night has to show up and they got to start talking about stuff in an entertaining way, whether they know what they're talking about or not.
It's not entertaining to say, oh well, we probably should wait another couple days to figure like, it's like, no, no, this is what's going on. This is what happened and this is how we got to react. Like, so that faux certainty is great for entertainment is what we end up all engaging in, is everybody became an expert with 1% of the information on everything that should happen at this point, right away.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: And they're very complex. Like, we're talking.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: I mean, you. How do we get something 70,000ft in the air so we can take pictures of something 65,000ft, you know, like, these are all complex things that don't get solved in five seconds, you know?
[00:36:46] Speaker A: And how about we do go take pictures of it so that when we shoot it down, we can put it back together.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
How about we do. Exactly.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Gather some information here, like, make sure it's not a threat. But once you make sure it's not a threat, let's figure this thing out, you know, like, so let's try and tell.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Let's try and tell a YouTube pilot how to take pictures of an object 65,000ft in the air that he's never been trained on how to take pictures of. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, all this was new for everybody, including the guys physically. They're, like, trying to deal with it. And so. But you brought up something great that I think I'm going to just piggyback on and then I'll be done.
Because it's going back to this leadership thing.
I think this hits a certain nail on the head, what we're about to discuss here, because what I just said about the type of leadership styles that we react to, actually, I think a lot of us in our society and our. With our discourse confuse it for actually picking like a side politically or a political ideology.
My point in saying that, because one thing I was going to kind of say I have joke, is like, I say half because it's true, which is I'm just.
Whatever the realities are behind the scenes. However, this is going to play out long after we're done recording this show. One thing that at least feels better than maybe the alternative, now that we saw the alternative in a certain style of leadership, is that I'm glad that we have a president that's not sitting there on social media constantly picking at this scab.
[00:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: Because I feel like.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: And trying to amp people up more and all that.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Because I feel like if this was.
And that is why I don't want to be partisan.
[00:38:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: But I got to say, right. If this was former President Trump, and that's why I'm saying it's not a partisan statement because I'm a fan of Ronald Reagan. So it's not about Republican or conservative ideology. It's about. I wouldn't have been comfortable because we know that he would have probably been talking crap directly at President Xi through Twitter. And to me, that is especially when you have such a different culture like China and you don't know how they're going to receive certain things. That, to me, is not the type of leadership I'd be comfortable with under this circumstance. When you got a high level, it's like the Cuban missile crisis back in the day. What if the equivalent was John Kennedy going into tabloids talking, literally talking crap about cruise ship, like, oh, man, look how short he is. Da, da, da.
That's not how you do it when it's high level stuff. So again, and that's why I appreciate the way you stopped me and broke that down, because for me to say that I appreciate Biden's style right now, not last week, not in five weeks, but in this case, I appreciate that he's not out there talking crap and out there in social media with his fingers saying, oh, yeah, f the Chinese, we got your balloon. Ha ha ha.
That's, you know, that's my kind of leadership. Like Teddy Roosevelt walks. What is it? Talks softly and carry a big stick. Some people, like you said, some people respond to the other style of leadership and say, that's strong. The fact that he went out there and just told the Chinese guy that, you know, I got your balloon this and that.
I'm not here to argue with that. I'm just saying that's not my style. But, but to the point we're making, right, the way the media and the way the politicians respond to something like this forces most people in their mind to have to make a choice.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think your point being that what you just laid out actually isn't a partisan choice.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: Correct?
[00:40:09] Speaker A: That's a stylistic choice.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that I can definitely see what you mean as far as how that could be confused a lot of times because we're talking right now, what you're talking about is demeanor. What you're talking about is someone's approach to crisis and so forth like that. And that stuff at least shouldn't be. That shouldn't be a matter of partisanship. You know, that should be a matter of individuals like that. If I don't know if everybody remembers this, but when we vote, we're supposed to be picking who the person who the best person for the job is, not just whatever is the name, is it a D or an R? We're supposed to be okay, evaluating the person as far as how we think their demeanor, abilities.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: We got a blue or red brother.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what you said. These are verbal gang signs signs. Now you know that was. That's three years ago.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: You know, ask if the cripper to blood which one is the best father at home and all this. No, I'm just supposed to kill the guy that's not on my side look.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: For the color man. And that's it. So. But no, I mean and that's in the only. The last thing I'll say we'll close this up is just with the media. The you know the other thing dealing with how the objective as you said, I think you said this earlier but just the objective to keep us interested is going to result in us always be on edge. And you've talked about in the past how you consuming less of that and less being not watching it all the time. You were less stressed, you were able to enjoy your day to day more because you weren't being constantly told that whatever was happening was so important to the big picture. And you know, so I think that it's again beyond like we.
[00:41:40] Speaker B: It's just. I'm sorry man, I just got a smile as you said because I was going to joke in my head saying yeah, I'm not telling you I'm scared of a big balloon over my head. And then it just got me thinking about what we've talked about. Like this is where the media does it just does a disservice to us all. So we've got all our politicians in the country arguing for just two weeks about what the Chinese are doing spying. And like we said, every single smartphone we have right now is made in China.
Every single flat screen. Every single one. Not some, everyone.
And there was an article, remember in 2015 in Bloomberg about a tiny chip that was like a millimeter long that they found back then that they had been using since 2012. The Chinese put it in and had access to everything they built that had that chip in it. Even our, even our drones for the military and all that. So the point is, is that we're already in an environment that they have access to everything.
And this should not be something that creates an extra.
[00:42:30] Speaker A: And that's not again to say that we shouldn't care about that stuff. We should care about it.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: I agree we should be doing things at all times to try to make things right with that. But it's just that shouldn't be the thing that makes you hysterical, makes it hard for you to sleep at night.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: When you're sitting there at work and you can't stop thinking about it and so forth. And that's where. That was the point I wanted to make, that that's where we're getting a disservice done. A lot of times when the. Our media, which is our information ecosystem, stops trying to give us context and is just trying to get us hooked. They're drug dealers, basically, you know what I'm saying? They're just trying to get us to fix because they want us to come back and they want us to keep coming back and keep coming back. Don't turn me off. Keep me on. And so when that's what's happening again, engage with it all you want, but just know that that's what. That's what they see you as. You know, you are a user.
But I do want to jump to the next topic. And the next topic was something that I've been fascinated by actually for a little bit now, did maybe a year or two now, because we've starting to see more information percolate out about it. And that's fascia. Now, fascia is. It's basically, it's tissue that surrounds or goes around our whole entire body. And it like, holds everything together, you know, Right. So on top of your muscles and, you know, all across, you know, just the whole body. And for most of time, basically, since we've been studying these things, like, actually it's been thought that that's all it did, was just like an encasing type of thing. Think like a, you know, like a spandex type of thing. Like it on the outside of the skin. This would be like that on the inside. And. But it's been learned more and more over the past decade and, you know, few years and so forth, that this stuff is active. And it is, you know, like you can do a better job or a worse job taking care of it. It can, you know, it can increase or decrease pain by properly managing and so forth. And so there's just. It's endless rabbit holes you can go into as far as the. This stuff goes. So Tunde, I just opened it up, you know, like first. Were you familiar with the extent to which fascia was present and, you know, how it operated in our bodies and what stood out to you, you know, in terms of just as we. We learn more about it, you know, like how big of a role it plays?
[00:44:35] Speaker B: Yeah, no, great question. So I was aware of fascia as something, right, that it's in our body. I mean, you know, the probably best known condition is a plantar fascia fasciitis. Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that was my introduction to it, too. Like, as an athlete. It's like.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Exactly. So it's like, I get like. I've heard of it. Right. And I know that. That. Yeah. So fascia is something that's, you know, kind of this kind of coating, this viscous thing that's kind of, you know, coats my muscles and things like that. Yeah, yeah. But I never knew the. The extent of, again, just how important it is. I mean, kind of like skin. You know, I was watching a documentary, and it was about the body, and they were saying how skin is the biggest organ in our body.
[00:45:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:21] Speaker B: Or for our body. And of course, when they break it down, it makes sense. I just never thought of my skin as a.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: When you think about it, it covers the whole thing.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: No, I know. That's what I'm saying, but. But because of that, I never really thought of it as an organ. Right. Yeah, but it is, and I think so. Fascia is something similar where it's underneath the skin and it's kind of, you know, it has its role, but I never thought of its level of importance.
But I guess what we'll talk about will confirm why it's important. So. But one of the things that reminded me, too, real quick, and then I pass it back, was actually of fungus, because fungus is also, you know, is an organism that is not well known. Right. Like, we know about plants, we know about animals.
[00:46:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: Fungus is actually kind of like in between a bit. Kind of like plasma being a form of matter.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: State of matter.
[00:46:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: But it's not well known. Like air and water. Right. And so.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: Because we're easily classified in that sense.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah, because we don't. I mean, fungus obviously is more abundant on Earth than plasma, but we don't. Except for eating mushrooms, literally, we don't. We don't recognize that.
[00:46:30] Speaker A: We.
[00:46:31] Speaker B: We interact with fungus all the time. You know, there's spores on the trees, there's stuff on the ground. And then we've learned in recent modern times, through scientific research and with the new technologies with, you know, that's available out there, that fungus actually helps the whole Earth communicate.
[00:46:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: Through the ground.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: It communicates like our nervous system does.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Correct. So. So. So, like, trees can communicate it with each other through using fungus. Like you're saying, like a neural network. So the point is, is that I realize fascia is like that, where it connects. It's that connective part of our whole body.
[00:47:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: And so, like fungus, it's very important, but yet not well known. So that's Kind of where.
[00:47:14] Speaker A: Well, interesting that you bring that up because like, to me, this, it's one of those things where like, it's amazing to me always how readily we as human beings assume that whatever it is that we know is all that there is to know.
[00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: And so, and that's, I mean, that plays in, in the topic we had earlier. You know, just like it's something that it's easy for us to do and it's probably good for our sanity. You know, like if we were constantly walking around with uncertainty and understanding we only have 1% of the picture, we probably would be much less decisive. We probably wouldn't be able to do accomplish much because we're always like, oh, well, what about this, what about that, what about this? And so essentially when you're looking at facial, like the fascia with, when I look at that. And again, yeah, I was familiar with it initially, the idea of it from plantar fasciitis, which, you know, you run track or you do, you play basketball, you do any of these things and that's something you don't want to get. And if you get it, you know, a teammate that's had it or you've had it and it's like, oh man, that's going to be difficult for that person to deal with for a while. It just has to heal. What was most interesting to me about this is, and you know, you and I are both into exercise and so forth. And but for me, I looked at it and I'm like, oh, okay, so there's more to it in terms of my posture, in terms of pain and so forth than just me working my muscles and making sure that my joints are stretched out and you know, like the tendons, ligaments, all that kind of stuff. There's also the thing that covers all of that is worked and is, can be strengthened, can be, can, can fall apart, so to speak. And so there's just something else to learn in terms, okay, well, how do, how do I train this? How do I, how do I, how do I make it, you know, optimize, how do I do that? And so that, to me, it just sent me on a rabbit hole. I've been on, I was on this weekend, like, oh man, what can, let me, what kind of training techniques can I incorporate to, to, to work this, you know, twisting and things like that. And just one piece on that was very interesting to me is that part of feeling sore deals with the fascia, like the post workout soreness and so forth, which was like, what, like Everybody knew that that was just your muscles, and it was. It. You got to do this, you got to do that and all that. It's like, what. That's. There's something else going on there as well, or that's a bigger part of that. So to me, it was. Yeah, this was the rabbit hole. That's interesting for me, like, oh, my goodness.
[00:49:20] Speaker B: Because to your point, like, I was reading that this is good, actually, you know, learning a lot with this one, that they were saying, how do you know, like, how can you tell if it's a muscle injury or if it's your fascia that's kind of sore? And they said, well, movement, muscle, and joint problems feel worse the more you move. Or with fascia, it feels better. So that's the whole thing, like, warming up, right?
[00:49:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:49:49] Speaker B: I got my freshman year in college. I played basketball at a school in Iowa. I'll never forget September. We started, you know, the getting in shape and all that before the season, and coach had us up at 5am to go run sprints and do all that stuff outside. Never forget, because grass on the field was crunching from the ice, from the. You know, that froze overnight in September. Yeah, in September. It was Iowa, baby. That was Iowa, baby. So. But I remember being like. It literally took, like, literally 15 minutes to start getting your body warm. And you. And I remember that soreness. So really, when I'm reading this, I'm thinking, okay, so that was fascia.
[00:50:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:26] Speaker B: Because clearly, if I had a torn muscle, like a torn bicep or a torn calf, there's no way that moving it would have more. Would have made me feel better.
[00:50:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: So I think, to your point, most of us, especially as guys that play sport and ladies that play sports, have been conditioned to feel that when you're sore, it's always your muscles.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: Stiff, sore, all those.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: It's like, clearly not the case. A muscle would be constantly hurting you, not something you'd warm up and kind of get over. And then the other thing, which I learned, which is a couple of fun points, and I'll pass it back. One is cellulite.
I didn't know that they were selling, saying that kind of when fascia gets really tight and all that, it creates that condition under the skin.
[00:51:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:07] Speaker B: Which caught. And I thought, wow, okay. I thought that was all like, fat or something else.
[00:51:10] Speaker A: Right. Aging fat, like all these other things.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: But it's just interesting.
[00:51:14] Speaker A: It's like, at least relatively simple explanation. You know, it's simple to explain, but, you know, again. And that Gets you back into where I was talking about, like, okay, well, so this thing is there. How do I exercise? And so, you know, one of the things that, like that I've come to. Okay, like it seems like they were talking about or what I've seen as far as training one, when you see the foam rollers, that's a faster thing. And when you do it fast and it's, you know, warming it up, or if you do it slow, you're trying to cool it back down and all that kind of stuff. But multiplanar movement was something that, like, in terms of like. Because what it does is hold everything in place. You know, like, your muscle is still mainly responsible for the, you know, as far as move. You're moving a bone, you're going to contract the muscle and that pulls it, and then you, you release that and then it allows it go to go back. And the, the. But the multiplanar, the twisting and so forth, is things that hold that strengthen those things together. And one thing that I thought of with this actually was you remember when in this change or this kind of, you know, hey, everybody talking about this. What was something that was more recent in our kind of adult life was when it became, hey, everybody's doing all these crunches forever, sit ups forever. And it's like, hey, if you want to improve your posture, improve your, you know, just your abdominals, a lot of what you should do is with planks and other type of static holds where you're holding everything together. And it's like, hey, that sounds a lot like when you're just holding it like that and trying to hold it in the right position posture, making sure you're sitting in the right position when you sit down and so forth. That sounds a lot like fascia and less like muscle at that point. Like, of course, a six pack, you're looking at actual muscles. But whether it's held in or not is fascia.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: Yeah. No, and it's interesting because the other thing with fascia is if you don't stretch regularly, you don't exercise regularly. That's when the fascia can really become tight.
[00:53:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: And start pulling on. I mean, it's amazing how many probably chronic pains and things like that.
[00:53:14] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:15] Speaker B: Are caused by fascia and not other things. Like we thought, like.
[00:53:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:18] Speaker B: Meaning, like, I could see if someone. Obviously, so many Americans don't exercise regularly or stretch, so. And especially people that drive a lot, you know, back and forth to work or sitting at a desk a lot. So think about your Back. For example, if you're not stretching that part of your body on a regular basis, daily, or just, you know, by stretching, it could be walking. It could be just doing things that keep it loose. Not. Not just physically only stretching. But if you're not doing that stuff, then clearly your fascia just gets tighter and tighter and then that starts pulling on muscles and ligaments and tendons.
[00:53:49] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Which then start pulling on, like, your discs in your back. Right. Like so.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: Creating imbalances.
[00:53:55] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:53:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: So these things are all related, which is, you know, again, like fungus, that you just don't realize how important something is.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: You've been watching too much Last of Us, man. Everything is like the fungus.
[00:54:05] Speaker B: Now, I've been playing that game too, by the way. But the other thing which I found it is the fun facts for me are it says for some people. So this goes back to what I said about the tightening. Adhesions can worsen over time, causing the fascia to compress and contort the muscles it surrounds. This can result in hard, tender knots in the muscles called trigger points. What that made me think of is getting a massage.
Because I thought about. I've had massages in life, and the person will be like, man, you got some real knots in your back there. Trying to, like, literally sitting on me, trying to get the knots out.
But this thing made me realize. Yeah, it's true. If that. If I actually had the muscle was injured, that would. I'd be screaming in pain. Like, meaning it wouldn't get better. Right. But the fact that by the end of the massage, I feel all great.
[00:54:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:54:53] Speaker B: And good.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Tells me that without that thing.
[00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. For what it tells me, after getting educated on this, is that. Yeah, that had nothing to do really, with my muscles. That was my practice.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: But go ahead, finish up.
[00:55:04] Speaker B: Well, the fascia, tightening it up to a point, that it caused the muscles to knot up.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: That's. So that's the most interesting thing about this, is that you not maintaining your fascia can cause problems for the muscle or the joints or, you know, the bones, the ligaments, tendons, and that, as you said, I think the key word was contort. So the fascia, if you're sitting in these poor, poor posture and so forth, your fascia can tighten in a way to have you contorted. And then your muscles and joints and, you know, everything is. Has to operate within that contorted shell, basically.
[00:55:39] Speaker B: And so people that work out that.
[00:55:41] Speaker A: Exactly. Until you work out that shell, then you're constantly. You're just putting Constant strain on those muscles, on everything like that. Because your body, you've allowed your body to take an unnatural form on the thing that holds it together. And so then, yeah, so it can be undone. But if we're just looking at, oh, I just gotta, you know, work out my muscles, then it's like, well, no, you're not going to get to it that way. You know, as you said, like your posture is over. You've seen people with the hunch, you know, and so forth and you know, like that's. Your fascia has taken that form basically. And it's like, oh, that's where it's.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why I just, it's, it's, it's. Again, it's interesting with all this kind of medical science and everything, how everything's related because remember then by, by probably really stretching and doing certain things like that more often, you know, not. You'll feel better because of what we're talking about. Right. Like your body is going to feel better, it's going to be able to stretch more. It's not going to be as tight and knotted feeling, which is then going to have an effect on your mind and your emotional state.
[00:56:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Because I remember that.
[00:56:44] Speaker A: But we did. Now we're understanding why. Yeah.
[00:56:48] Speaker B: Connected.
[00:56:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: And it's. But the last thing I'll point out here to me, which is, which is again fascinating with how all this relates, is that, you know, I'll say this to try and keep it, not to get gross or all that, but you know, I had.
[00:57:04] Speaker A: I don't know where you're going.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: No, because I had, I had, I was trying to see, how do I get this out without sounding serious? Because remember I had the, I had an issue for the audience. I had my first middle aged man issue. I had a prostatitis six months ago. So, you know, the infection of my prostate, you know, I was talking to some people and it's not an infection, it's an infection that's different. But one of the reasons that could have caused my body to be in a position to be susceptible to an infection, one was dehydration, which affects fascia, which is.
[00:57:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's one. Hydration is big for the fascia.
[00:57:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:39] Speaker B: The other, which specifically. And again, this is to be serious, not to be joking around with this conversation. Is that part of our body especially. Well, I guess men and women, right. A lot of things meet down there.
[00:57:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: Right from your, your anus, which means you've got your colon, your intestinal tract all that's trying to fit down there. You got your bladder, you got the kidneys, feeding the tubes, all that going. That that goes through, you know, for us men, it goes through the prostate and then of course, you got the sexual organs and all that. So when one person did tell me, they go, tunde, man, as you're getting older, because I'm. I'll be 45 in a month. They said you need to make sure that you stretch regularly and constantly as a man.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:58:16] Speaker B: Because they were saying that you got to keep all that stuff, which is fascia related, loose in there because if you let that tighten up too much.
[00:58:24] Speaker A: It'S going to hold things in contorted positions.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: Correct. Which will make me at higher risk for infections in that area randomly. Right.
[00:58:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:58:32] Speaker B: So it's just interesting. That's what I mean. Like, it all hit me like, wow, this is actually very important, this stretching. I never thought of it. I only thought of it as an athlete.
[00:58:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:39] Speaker B: But not from a health perspective. So.
[00:58:42] Speaker A: No, I mean, I think to your point, also, it sets you on a course to feel better, which will affect just your day to day quality of life. You know, you feeling better, it's like, yeah.
[00:58:52] Speaker B: So stopping watching cable news and stretching is. It revolutionized.
[00:58:57] Speaker A: You're on your way, man.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Thank you, man. Okay. I didn't realize the secret was that simple.
[00:59:03] Speaker A: So.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: But now I can stop taking Xanax and Prozac and all that then, right?
[00:59:07] Speaker A: That would be the objective. That would be the objective.
[00:59:10] Speaker B: But now for the audience, I don't think. Yeah, that was.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: That was for illustration purposes.
[00:59:16] Speaker B: For the next time I get life insurance, I don't need the underwriter.
Tunde, we got to rate you for mental and nervous disorder now.
[00:59:22] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:59:23] Speaker B: So.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: But no, I did. I think we can close this episode up from here. We appreciate everybody for joining us on this episode of Call. Like I said, see it, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, tell us what you think, send it to a friend. Until next time, I'm James Keys.
[00:59:36] Speaker B: I'm not crazy. I'm tuned. Lana.
[00:59:38] Speaker A: All right, we'll talk to you next time.
