Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In this episode, we take a look at some of the more insightful life lessons illustrated in the book the Alchemist.
Hello, welcome to the Call Like I See it podcast. I'm James Keats, and joining me today is a man whose thought process can really nourish your brain and other parts of your body.
Tunde Oga and Lana Tunde, are you ready to give the people some soul food today?
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Of course, man. Let's do it. All right.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: For sure. For sure.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: All right.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Now before we get started, I asked if you like the show to subscribe and like on YouTube or your podcast platform. Doing so really helps the show out. We're recording on June 7, 2025, and we continue our culture series today by doing some reading between the lines in the international best selling book the Alchemist. Now, the book was first published in 1988 in Portuguese and then first published in English in 1993. And in it, author Paulo Coelho tells the tale of a young Spanish boy who leaves behind his life as a shepherd after having a dream and meeting with a king and goes on a journey that takes him through the Sahara to the pyramids and elsewhere as he seeks to fulfill his personal legend.
Now, we've discussed this book before, but for this show, we're not trying to really do a book report or cover the whole thing.
We're really focusing today on life lessons that can be taken from some of the situations in the book. And just as a heads up, there will be spoilers in this show. So, Tunde, to get us started, what did you take away from the beginning of the book, particularly the boy's focus on his anticipated meeting with the merchant's daughter and how much time was spent in the first portion of the book talking about all he was doing and all he was thinking as far as getting ready for that.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought it was great. I think for me, I got the most out of it actually, the second time I read it. I think I had to get through the. I would recommend for people that are either interested or read it one time because once you read it again, you, or listen, if you're an audiobook person, you recognize the contrast between the boy at the beginning of the story compared to what is would be fresher in your head about how he, I would say, evolved and matured, you know, by the end of the book. And so I, I thought, you know, for me it was, I, I use the word cute like he was a cute young man when he was younger compared to the more hardened, experienced guy when he was by the end of the journey type of thing. Even though at the end he did retain some of his innocence, I. I felt that, you know, it was a great example in several ways. One is when we're younger, how certain things are much more of a focus.
We can get very infatuated or focused on certain things as young people. And I would say for me, as a young man, I can remember that. And that could have been a young lady and. Or maybe an ideology or an idea that you become very focused on as a young person. And then the second was because of the contrast once. Once you have already digested the story, to go back and see his infatuation, his focus with the merchant's daughter.
And that's what I mean. Like, his. Like one thing he thought in his mind that would be so impressive and so great would be if he could shear his sheep in front of her and show her how. Like, how great he could shear sheep. And then, like, when you know the story and you know this amazing journey that this kid took, when you hear that again, you're kind of like, wow, that was. That was the focus of your whole thing back then. And knowing what he's going to kind of walk into in the future. So for me, that was an interesting kind of contrast to real life, in a sense.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: No, I mean, I think that if you even look broader to me, actually, just from the large scale here, like the book spends, you know, the first 10% of the book, 15% of the book. He's preparing for this now. He had met this lady, you know, this. This girl, you know, a year before. And he was supposed to come back to that village, you know, the merchant. He's selling wool to the merchant and so forth. And so the book leads in and we're getting some background on him and so forth. But in a traditional storytelling sense, when so much time is devoted to. And like, oh, we're going to do this. This is what's going to happen. And I'm going to tell her stories because he could read. So that's impressive. And I'm. But I can tell her stuff because I can read. I can tell her stuff that I did. Maybe that or making it seem like I did it, but I didn't really do it. And she won't know the difference. Cause she can't read.
But there's so much development on this. And then you spend the rest of the book and it never comes back up.
So to me, that's what really was the. Like, it was such his focus that this is all he could think about. And then once he goes on this other. And like you said, it's a much more. What he does ultimately, is much more impressive, much more amazing than going to see a girl and showing her he can cut the wool and selling that wool to her dad and he was hoping to marry her and stuff like that. And so. But, like, it was the. It reminded. It was a lesson in perspective, you know, to me, because it was like, okay, when certain things are in front of you and you talk. You mentioned the word infatuation, you know, and it's kind of like that. Like, certain things are in front of you in all of our lives, you know, they'll be. These will be like our obsessive focus.
But then if you scale out a year or two years or something and you look at some of these things that maybe. Maybe you focused on so much and were so important to you at one given time, it's like, this was a blip in my life. This was something that I barely can remember and I haven't thought about in years. And so to me, that was kind of. It was the lesson in perspective, that when the perspective was low, when we just meet the guy and we're at the very beginning of the book, we understood this girl and this meeting to be a very important thing. Once you finish the whole book, like you said, you really appreciate it the second time through because. Because it's like, oh, I'm just reading this part to get to the next part. Because this part is just, you know, this is flyover part of the book, really. Only to set up the idea that, you know, again, this growth that he's gonna go on.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why I would recommend people going through the book more than once, because it took going through the second it again to realize what you're saying, that these are kind of flyover parts.
Funny, because I wrote a few notes here. I mean, first of all, Paulo Coelho is a great author. I mean, the way, like. Like I. I wrote down one of the. The descriptions. He says that the girl had eyes that vaguely recalled the Moorish invaders. And I just thought, like, that's cool.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: You, like.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: You know, like, it puts you in that scene of that region of the world, you know, this kind of Spain, the Mediterranean and all that. And it's a good reminder that, yeah, this whole region, you know, the book itself, the fact that he went to seminary school, it said that he spoke Arabic, Portuguese, Spanish and Latin or something like that. And it's just like, yeah, well, no, I mean, even. But he talked about Santiago, the kid. Remember that the parents put him through seminary school, but he wanted to become a shepherd, so he didn't learn the.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Arabic till he went to Africa.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Well, he was fluent in many languages. Maybe Arabic was, but they said specifically Spanish, Portuguese. The whole point is not for us to get bogged down into which language. My point is he was educated, like you said. He was literate. And the fact.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: So you're talking about Santiago?
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about the kid. What I'm saying is it's a reminder when. When I just read the part about the young ladies, Moorish eyes and blah, blah, blah, that. That region of the world, the diversity of it, you know, this. That. The fact that the Mediterranean has all of this diversity. He was a Christian kid that went to a seminary school, but yet within a short period of time of his life, he's over in Egypt, you know, speaking Arabic, like you're saying. And on this caravan. So I would say it's a much different field than you and I growing up. Right. You and I through the Appalachian Trail between you and Ohio and me and dc, Maryland. So. So that's why, to me, it was just an interesting. Another reminder, like, wow, this. This story is set in a part of the world where there was also a lot of change and a lot of differences. And. Yeah, yeah, this story kind of sets this. He starts as a young kid that started in the seminary school in Spain as a Catholic, clearly, and all this stuff. And then he even talks about the stories of the Crusades. And again, as an American, it was an interesting, like, okay, so this part of the world had all this stuff. And this is. It's kind of like this is the story of this one kid in this, like. But the backdrop of this whole Mediterranean stuff, and he's kind of experiencing it all.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a lot of interesting. No, I feel you. Because it's like, even part of the book. I mean, he decides to go on this journey and he's like, okay, well, I'll go from Spain to Africa. And it's like he hops on a boat and he's there in a couple hours, you know, and these aren't like huge ships. These are like little, like, you know.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: You know, a little something like, you and I weren't doing that when we were like, you know, late teens, early 20s, whatever.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah, like, that's like. You're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to. To. To. To Pennsylvania is For me, I'm going to go to Kentucky. Like, oh, yeah, kind of crazy. So, you know, it is to be able to jump and then. And part of the culture shock is part of his growing, you know, in that.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: And he's like, when he does go to these different places that are so close and learn, it's like has to adapt and learn and so forth. And, and. And it's not. It's very different, you know, an hour or two away, you know, so. Second thing I wanted to look at with you though was further along in the, in the book when. When he's on the journey and you know, part of the journey to get from, you know, western Africa, northwestern Africa, you know, where Spain, you know, where you jump over the strait and you know, and come through. And then you're in northern Africa and northwest to get to Egypt. Egypt is a northern still, but it's on the east. So in. In between those two, the Sahara Desert. So a large part of the book is about the, The. The preparing to. And then getting across the Sahara and which it's done in a caravan and you know, which is also one of these things that, you know, transports you to this place. Like, wow, that's so different than, you know, the, the way we travel now also. But then also just this landmass that they're dealing with this huge, huge desert. But the person he meets, you know, on this, on this trip and gets to know pretty well is. Is referred to as the Englishman. And Englishman is where we first learn about this idea of an alchemist. And he's like, oh, he's. The Englishman is actually looking for the alchemist. The boy wasn't looking for the alchemist, but the boy learns about the alchemist from the Englishman. So the. But the Englishman's like what he's looking for from the alchemist and what he's. He's bringing to the table in terms of, you know, the, the. His goal with the alchemist really does inform his interactions with the subsequent interactions with the alchemist versus the boys subsequent interaction with the alchemist. So what do you make of this distinction, you know, between how the Englishman ultimately interacted with the alchemists and what he was bringing, you know, to that interaction versus the boy's interaction with the alchemist and what we'll explain, you know, kind of more as we go through, but I want to get right to your reaction as well.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought that was another, to me, like a profound part of the book because I thought it reflected a lot. Number one I would say from a macro, 30,000ft of humans.
I think it tried to tell the story or allegory about the type of people who are looking for things, but those things might be running right in front of them, but because they believe they want something else, or they're looking for the more material side of it, then maybe the esoteric or spiritual side of it, they never find it. So, for example, when he was talking about he wanted to find the alchemist because he could turn lead into gold.
And so to me, that was more of like, all right, he wants something material out of this engagement. It's for him. It's a selfish need.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Where also, don't forget the elixir of life, too.
Don't get.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: That's what I mean. It's about possessing things. And I want to meet this guy because he can. He can do stuff. Correct. And it's something that's going to benefit me. Either more gold or longer life, things like that. And then the other part, I would say not so much going to the greater humanity comment, but more of a. Maybe a look at recent modern history.
I thought the Englishman represented a bit of the kind of colonial mindset of, let's say, the British Empire when it went, starting with the British East India Company 5, 600 years ago, and started going around colonizing other cultures.
Because the Englishman's attitude was more of, I'm, you know, kind of like the. That's why I love that he's called the Englishman. It's kind of the old British Victorian. I'm the civilized one. I'm smarter. I'm going to have my head in these books and keep reading while this whole world, this new world is around me, is passing me. And so the boy was looking at the Englishman sometimes when they were in the caravan, kind of saying, this guy's always got his head in the books. He's not looking out to see what's. What's out here and what's around. So I found that an interesting contrast where the Englishman was not present on the journey because he knew so much better. And he was in his books because he knew how to find the alchemist, where the boy was just innocent and kind of present.
And it's the boy that finds the alchemist, not the Englishman in the way.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Well, they both found the alchemist, but the boy who's able to get out.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Of that, you know, the Englishman didn't find him in the way that he had intended. He didn't even know he found him.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: In reality, I would say, like to me, what it was, what it really represented was that the Englishman, like, he. So the Englishman was someone who was looking for purpose, looking for something. Like, they talked about all the things he had learned about, learned the world's religions, learned about. And he got into alchemy. And so he's reading about alchemy back in Europe and hears about that there's this alchemist potentially in Egypt. And so he goes on the quest to find the alchemist. But what he brings with him is all this. All this knowledge, all this book knowledge, all this information. And these are the books he's reading, is all the stuff he's like, the alchemist is going to quiz me before he reveals all these secrets to me. So I got to know all this stuff and what it really was. And then when he finally meets the alchemist, the alchemist pretty much tells him, like, okay, well, you know all this stuff already, so go ahead and continue on doing the stuff that. All the stuff that, you know, like, he came closed for. He came to the alchemist, but he was already closed off for more knowledge because he already thought he knew everything, you know, and so he was like, I have all the books. I have all the explanations. When the boy, he shared the books with the boy, and the boy read the books, and he was like, well, you know, this stuff, this seems to. All this stuff seems to be about something very simple. And the Englishman took offense that, like, oh, yeah, the boy is just too simple, you know, to understand all this stuff. So, but when the boy meets the alchemist, he comes in with an open mind, you know, and so he wasn't necessarily, like you pointed out, wasn't looking for the material gain of it, but he was open to receiving knowledge from the alchemist. And so I think what the alchemist picked up on and what the alchemist, when his interaction with the Englishman, it was like, okay, well, you already know all this stuff. Well, go continue to do what you're doing and see if you can figure it all out. And so Nagelsman and Englishman was happy with that. He was like, yeah, I do know all this stuff, so I will just continue to try to figure it out. You know, it's like, all right, so that's what you got out of this. But it was because he was closed off for more knowledge that is particularly knowledge that wasn't going to be presented in a way that he thought it was going to be presented in. Like, if the alchemist would have gave him a book, then he would have been like, oh, yeah, he would have read the book and he would like. But the alchemist was. Was one to teach you through life, you know, and that's what we saw in the book. And so the boy was receptive to that because he was open to living and experiences and so forth. And that's how he ended up going from shepherding in Spain to, you know, is being open to all these things and kind of, you know, going on a specific path, but being open to how he gets there. And every time he. He kind of. More things are opened up to him as he has these. These things that look like diversions. He's actually learning more and gaining more and so forth. So I think what it really revealed is, and I see this a lot, you know, in our life now, like we always are, so. So many of us are so sure of so many things that we close ourselves off to more information that could be. If we just open our eyes a little bit and become receptive to what's going on around us, we can pick up a lot more. And some of the things we think we know may not 100% be true, but it's just. It's the surety that so many of us have, especially when we get our knowledge purely from books.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and a couple things, man, because as you're talking, it made me think of that old famous phrase that when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
And I think that the Englishman, because as you're talking, it was a good reminder to me that the alchemist also was a part of this journey for both men because the alchemist chose which student was ready.
And like you're saying, because he met the Englishman did meet him, the Englishman didn't know he met him, you know, because the alchemist didn't reveal himself to the Englishman when they met about his true. Who he. Who he was, his true nature, where he revealed himself to the boy because he, as a teacher, felt the boy, the student, was ready. And so. And that. That got me thinking that it's.
It was ego on the part of the Englishman, to your point, that the Englishman's ego would not allow him to believe that the. In that the alchemist was really the type of alchemist that the Englishman thought he wanted to look for. Because the Englishman thought that an alchemist had to have, you know, a lab with all this chemistry stuff. And da, da, da, because he knows so much. And when he met the alchemist and the alchemist reveals himself to him as the alchemist, the Englishman doesn't believe him. And it reminds me of a scene later in the book when the alchemist also reveals the, you know, elixir of life and some other stone to other men later on. And they also laugh at him.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: And the boy says, kind of ask the alchemist, well, why'd you tell him this stuff? It could be like, you know, they could have known. And the alchemist kind of says something I'm paraphrasing here, but he's kind of saying, like, you know, when you show people the truth and they kind of don't believe it, they're just going to laugh at you anyway. So he was almost saying, like, we don't have to hide this stuff because we can just have it in plain sight. But the fact that they're not ready to take this in means they won't see it anyway. So again, these good lessons. And then the last thing I was going to say as a joke, he gets your reaction is as you're talking about the Englishman, all I could think of is the Englishman was an early precursor to an online influencer.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: He was so sure. Right? He knew. He knew exactly what he was about. You know, if you come at him with some other fact or some sideways thing, no way he's, you got it. There's no, There's a purity test here. And I know what I'm talking about because I read it in the book and I just reminded me of, like, living through Covid and, you know, about the vaccine or about whatever topic that we are, you know, always arguing about as a society now online that you have these people like the Englishman, they know better than all of us what, what, what is, you know, how we all should live or what we should eat or whatever. And that's why.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think that's. But that's, that's, that's part of, part of the human experience. Like, yeah, there's a comfort in feeling like we have a good handle on, on, like, what's all going on around us. And there's a discomfort in feeling like we may not know everything. And so some people aren't able to really deal with that discomfort. And so they do take little knowledge and then make that the, the, the, the. Make that everything and say, okay, I have my little knowledge. It's not like you have no knowledge, but you have my little knowledge. I lack perspective, but nonetheless, I'm going to take this little knowledge and kind of wall up and close up any ability to receive more information that could make question that may actually broaden my understanding if I took it in, but I don't want to because I don't want anything to question what I already know. And so even with like, again, I think it's very significant. Like when the Englishman meets the alchemist and he talks to the alchemist, and the alchemist, he tells him to just continue like, oh, okay. So the, like, the Englishman's like, okay, I know I need to, to boil the, you know, this, or heat this metal, and I need to do this, I need to do that. And English alchemist is like, okay, yeah, so you know all this stuff. Okay, so go do that stuff. It's like he, he's not sitting there saying, alchemist, what can I do to be more like you? Like, that's not his approach. When he finally meets the guy, he's not asking him how to, how he can, you know, what he can do. He's not open to, to be taught. He's like, here's all the stuff I know. I just want. You can. You just kind of wanted a stamp of approval, like, okay, yeah, go ahead and do it. And the alchemist just really realized that immediately. Like, okay, yeah, this guy is not. He's not here for knowledge, you know, he's here for self affirmation, or he's here for affirmation of the stuff he already read. So he gave it to him and then the alchemist left, or excuse me, the Englishman went on and did his thing. And so. But I want to keep us moving. There's something I was, I wanted to throw at you that I didn't prepare you for, for, for this.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Let's see how this goes, audience.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah. But there, there was one other, a brief story that I wanted to get your reaction on because I just find it to be the most fascinating. And that is the very beginning of the book before, when, when we. We have the kind of the prelude, you know, the alchemist, you know, opens up the book from somebody in the caravan and reads the story of Narcissus, you know, and you know, the story Narcissus, it basically comes down to a youth who is so into his own appearance, looks in a lake every day and then falls into the lake eventually and dies. Because he just was so infatuated with an appearance. And it goes through, you know, the forest and the lakes. Have a conversation after this. I mean, you know, it's his literature. And the lake gets into talking about, oh, well, the force is like, man, he was so beautiful. I'm sure you miss him. And I think the lake turned salty and it's like salty tears. It's like, oh, so I'm sure you're crying because you don't get to see Narcissus anymore. And the lake was like, he was beautiful. I was just marveling at the beauty of myself reflected in his own eyes. And so I think that one always stuck with me so much because it's like, yeah, we look at. You know, so often, we're looking at, oh, yeah, these people. You know, everybody's. Everybody's so focused on themselves a lot of times that we fail to see that other people are so focused on themselves. So just, again, I didn't prepare you for this, but just this story of Narcissus and I mean, this is where the word narcissism comes from. So, I mean, like, it's not something that's completely out of left field, but just, to me, the lake's reaction and saying the lake was. Yeah, the lake was sad. It missed Narcissus not because he was beautiful, but. But because he gave the lake the ability to see itself, which just. Did you have anything from that story, you know, that we could throw in at the end of this? Before we close it up?
[00:22:44] Speaker B: Can I go back to online influencers or how the Internet is how we all look through a camera or a screen and we marvel at our own beauty? We'll marvel at our own B.S. yeah, exactly.
I guess. Yeah. You know what? The interface of whether it's your tablet, your phone screen, or a desktop is the lake. Right.
And we're looking through one end, you know, staring at something we think is great while someone else is looking at the other and, you know, doing the same, thinking that your own thing is great. But no, that's why, you know, it's interesting because as you're talking, it reminds me of that scene where we just said before about the Englishman meeting the alchemist. And it's not that it was both sides, but from the alchemist. Sorry, the Englishman's point or standpoint.
Um, like, you're saying, he was already. Like, his cup was already full.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: His cup.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: He was looking at himself. Basically, it was a. The alchemist, to him was just a mirror to show him how smart he was. And that's why, to me, the book is great. Because, like I would say, and this is.
This is an interesting observation, I'm going to say this.
Many of us, depending on your station in society, can walk around like the alchemist.
I would say that there are.
You know, we've been in rooms or places where people assume they know all about you or the group you represent or your religion or whatever it is.
And they're telling you something about what you know a lot. What you actually live. Right. And, you know, there's those of us. Maybe when I was younger, I would argue with people like, nah, you don't know this and that. As I'm older now, I just kind of nod my head and like, okay, yeah, you know, you see the world like that. Or you think my group of people behaves like this, or you think that the religion I like or something is, you know, whatever. Whatever it is. I don't argue anymore. I'm more like the alchemist now. Like, oh, yeah, I'll just pat someone on the back and just move on their way to keep it moving. Yeah, like, all right, I can't argue with you. Your cup is already full. You don't want to learn anything. And so that, to me is, you know, I don't know if that. No, I don't know. I got from the lake and Narcissus back to the English.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: No, I like it. I like it. I mean, it was meant to take you off.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: This is what happens when you don't prepare me.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Hey, man, it was meant. I thought we got something out of that. For me, though, actually, what I would say about this, obviously, I knew this was coming, but nonetheless, I. This reminded me of kind of the evolution of Instagram, because, like, a lot of people may not recall, but Instagram evolved initially about people sharing, like, the camera was facing outward, and so people shared pictures of things that they saw. So I see this. I'm going to take this picture and I'm going to share it on Instagram. That was kind of the way Instagram was used primarily initially, whereas now what Instagram has evolved into primarily now is the camera is not facing outward anymore. The camera got turned around and is facing towards the person who's posting. So, like, so much of Instagram now, if you go on, is you're seeing the people that are being posted. And so that, to me, it reminded me of the narcissist stories. Like, oh, yeah, let me. Let me reflect this beauty back and let everybody see this. I know there's beauty out there, too, you know, like, there's beauty, you know, plenty of. Plenty of places to look where you can see beauty. But what you really want to see is. Let me turn this camera.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah, right here.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: I think these are all just to make the point. I think these are all, like, just like you pointed out with the Englishman, like, these are all Stories where we can see ourselves or parts of ourselves or people we know in them. You know, like these are human characteristics that we're talking about here. And so it's not a surprise that we see these things in the world around us. Which is kind of why we decided to do this conversation.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah, no, and I just finished with this. Like it's interesting as we finish this conversation and kind of your comments about Instagram and just us talking about social media. I think social media and like you said, the ability of the technology for us to turn it around on ourselves because I mean, it's a very interesting point you make. Imagine if cell phone manufacturers never made a camera that faces the cell phone on the front of the camera, only on the back. Honestly, James, how different would the world be right now? People wouldn't be doing selfies like they do all that stuff. And I think you're right.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: I think they would find a way.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: They could, but it wouldn't be as easy. But it would be like if you didn't, if social media couldn't be put on a phone and only on a desktop. Right. Like people would still go on it, but it wouldn't, you just wouldn't sit in front of your computer six hours a day. I mean, it just wouldn't, you know, be practical. So it's, it's. That's what I'm saying, James. Like, I feel like your, your breakdown of this got me to realize why I think so many people in our culture now feel a little, just bit weird and uneasy about where we all are in our discourse as a society. Because it's almost like we have this mass narcissistic psychosis for a large part of the population. I'm not going to say everybody or everybody that's online, but similar to a story we did recently about politics and a politician who did a lot of stuff online. It's like the online world attracts a lot of people that already fall into maybe this narcissistic or self interested state of mind. And I think that's why when we go on certain platforms, the discourse just looks very ugly because people are just constantly triggered because they're being upset about things that don't match whatever they're so passionate about.
And you know, it's, it's.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: Well, I mean, if you think about it, because, yeah, like that's, but that's a way for engagement. And so I think that in fact it, it.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Yes.
You know, looking back and being sad and now he's salty. Right. Like it's, you Saying that made me realize we all got a bunch of lakes here. Everyone went from fresh water to saltwater.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Well, our, you know, like, yeah, that, that's. That's the environment we've created. It's like it. Those values are what are. Promote. What's promoted primarily, you know, and so that's why. Yes, in our society we see that a lot because that is what, you know, we're actually that what we do, the way our systems are set up are to promote those behaviors. So if you're a person who is kind of like that, then you're going to lean more into it. And if you're a person who. That's just the way you are, that's the way you operate, you're going to thrive in the environment, you know. So I mean, it's just kind of those are the values that get reinforced the most. So that's what we. That's what we're around the most. So it's just interesting to see, you know, but nothing new under the sun, you know, just certain things might take additional prominence in certain type of situations or environments. So. But I think we'll wrap this topic from there. We appreciate all for joining us on this episode. Call like I see it, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, tell us what you think, send it to a friend. Till next time. I'm James Keys.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: I'm Tunde. Wanna.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: All right. And also we'll have a call out this week, so check that out as well and we'll talk to you soon.
